http://www.dawn.com/2011/08/11/ties-with-india-pakistans-option.html
August 11, 2011
THIS is apropos of the letter ‘Pakistan – India ties: impact on the region’ (Aug 7) by Sahib Dino Jatoi (Aug 7) No organisation — Saarc or UN — can sort out the tension between India and Pakistan unless there is an accord on Kashmir.
All old disputes can be resolved amicably, but not Kashmir! However, earnestly we all might so wish, the Kashmir problem isn’t going to go away and there is no solution except a compromise. So both countries should accept the Line of Control as the international border and shake hands.
There is no point in going into its causes, but today to take a plebiscite in J&K is not feasible as all Hindu voters have been driven out from the valley.
If the Chatham House Report on Kashmir (published in October 2009) is to be believed, then the choice of joining Pakistan is no more a popular choice with Kashmiri Muslims. The whole report can be downloaded and studied from the link: http://tinyurl.com/3hfbf9f. I appeal to all Pakistanis to make the efforts to read this report so they know the score and agree to the solution mentioned above.
The need of the hour is to read the writing on the wall and accept this solution and proceed towards lessening of hostilities and reduction on expenditure on arms.
Anyway, Pakistan should stop waging wars that it can hardly afford. With the US itself embroiled in its own financial mess, Pakistan can’t expect any more aid from America.
Now Pakistan’s ‘forever-friend’ China has also complained that Pakistan-trained militants were behind recent terrorist acts in Xinjiang province.
In fact, I feel that India is the only genuine friend Pakistan is left with. Pakistan should unclench its fist and extend its hand towards strengthening this natural friendship.
While Mr Jatoi seems be full of hopes, these factors need to be studied before allowing the euphoria of the recent Hina-Krishna dialogue to go to our heads!
K.B. KALE, Jakarta
Thursday, 11 August 2011
Tuesday, 9 August 2011
India and Pakistan should shake hands
9th Aug. 2011
I always like reading Khawaja’s letters that appear in The Jakarta Post. He writes very sensibly. I have also felt his desire for a lessening of the Indo-Pak tensions. But his letter on Aug. 3 is somewhat different.
I think all the old disputes except Kashmir can be sorted out amicably! However, no matter how earnestly we all might wish this, the Kashmir problem isn’t going to go away! So both countries should accept the Line of Control as the international border and shake hands. There is no point in going into its causes, but today to accept a plebiscite is not feasible in J&K as all Hindus have been driven out from the valley.
But Pakistan could hold a plebiscite in the Kashmir region it occupies as there is no major ethnic change in its population. The choices should be whether they would like to join India or Pakistan, but not “Independent Kashmir” because if we talk of Kashmir’s independence, all the provinces in India & Pakistan from Kashmir, Baltistan, Gilgit (North) to Tamilnadu (South) and Waziristan, Baluchistan (West) to Assam, Nagaland (East) should also be offered the same “luxury”! Are both the countries ready to open this Pandora’s Box?
Is Pakistan ready to hold a plebiscite in the Kashmir region it presently occupies to decide whether the people there wish to join India or Pakistan?
Though both the countries are arming themselves to their teeth, India is doing so with its own money but Pakistan is doing it with borrowed funds expressly not given for that purpose!
Pakistan should have a healthy competition with India, but on fields other than the battlefield! I have never understood why Pakistan is fighting wars that it can’t afford, whether it’s with India or its War on Terror. Let go, my dear friends, concentrate on being self-sufficient first. Pakistan should stop seeking aid from other nations! But today the situation is so bad that if the US denies the aid, Pakistan goes to China! Why is Pakistan not self-sufficient after more than 60 years of independence? Why does it not want to quit the infamous “failed states club”?
It apparently wasn’t loyal to the US’ friendship in regards to Osama’s camping in Abbottabad and now their forever-friend China also has accused that Pakistan-trained militants were behind the terrorist acts in Xinjiang province. So whither Pakistan?
When a tsunami hit many parts of India, India politely refused all aid from other nations, but when last year Pakistan was hit by one of the worst floods, it went to the world for help. When Pakistan complained of poor world response, the donors wanted Pakistan to first force its rich to pay their taxes! India offered help (like it did with the Katrina flood victims in USA), but Pakistan was not magnanimous even in accepting it gracefully.
Khawaja has touched on the rise of hardline elements in both countries. Speaking for Hindus, we are basically tolerant people. That is why so many religions flourished in India. So its reasons need to be traced elsewhere. However, this is neither the place nor the time to discuss it!
Peace in this region can come only if Pakistan changes its mindset. That is why I lauded the recent speech of Pakistan’s ex-prime minister Nawaz Sharief appealing to his countrymen not to look at India as their biggest enemy. In fact, India is Pakistan’s most genuine friend. Enmity with India has cost Pakistan dearly from the beginning!
K.B. Kale, Jakarta
9th Aug. 2011
I always like reading Khawaja’s letters that appear in The Jakarta Post. He writes very sensibly. I have also felt his desire for a lessening of the Indo-Pak tensions. But his letter on Aug. 3 is somewhat different.
I think all the old disputes except Kashmir can be sorted out amicably! However, no matter how earnestly we all might wish this, the Kashmir problem isn’t going to go away! So both countries should accept the Line of Control as the international border and shake hands. There is no point in going into its causes, but today to accept a plebiscite is not feasible in J&K as all Hindus have been driven out from the valley.
But Pakistan could hold a plebiscite in the Kashmir region it occupies as there is no major ethnic change in its population. The choices should be whether they would like to join India or Pakistan, but not “Independent Kashmir” because if we talk of Kashmir’s independence, all the provinces in India & Pakistan from Kashmir, Baltistan, Gilgit (North) to Tamilnadu (South) and Waziristan, Baluchistan (West) to Assam, Nagaland (East) should also be offered the same “luxury”! Are both the countries ready to open this Pandora’s Box?
Is Pakistan ready to hold a plebiscite in the Kashmir region it presently occupies to decide whether the people there wish to join India or Pakistan?
Though both the countries are arming themselves to their teeth, India is doing so with its own money but Pakistan is doing it with borrowed funds expressly not given for that purpose!
Pakistan should have a healthy competition with India, but on fields other than the battlefield! I have never understood why Pakistan is fighting wars that it can’t afford, whether it’s with India or its War on Terror. Let go, my dear friends, concentrate on being self-sufficient first. Pakistan should stop seeking aid from other nations! But today the situation is so bad that if the US denies the aid, Pakistan goes to China! Why is Pakistan not self-sufficient after more than 60 years of independence? Why does it not want to quit the infamous “failed states club”?
It apparently wasn’t loyal to the US’ friendship in regards to Osama’s camping in Abbottabad and now their forever-friend China also has accused that Pakistan-trained militants were behind the terrorist acts in Xinjiang province. So whither Pakistan?
When a tsunami hit many parts of India, India politely refused all aid from other nations, but when last year Pakistan was hit by one of the worst floods, it went to the world for help. When Pakistan complained of poor world response, the donors wanted Pakistan to first force its rich to pay their taxes! India offered help (like it did with the Katrina flood victims in USA), but Pakistan was not magnanimous even in accepting it gracefully.
Khawaja has touched on the rise of hardline elements in both countries. Speaking for Hindus, we are basically tolerant people. That is why so many religions flourished in India. So its reasons need to be traced elsewhere. However, this is neither the place nor the time to discuss it!
Peace in this region can come only if Pakistan changes its mindset. That is why I lauded the recent speech of Pakistan’s ex-prime minister Nawaz Sharief appealing to his countrymen not to look at India as their biggest enemy. In fact, India is Pakistan’s most genuine friend. Enmity with India has cost Pakistan dearly from the beginning!
K.B. Kale, Jakarta
Thursday, 16 June 2011
Why was Khalid Khawaja Murdered?
Why was Khalid Khawaja Murdered?
Navhind Times, Goa
10th May 2010
http://www.navhindtimes.in/opinion/letters-editor-47
IN March 2010, Khalid Khawaja along with Colonel Imam (widely believed to have trained Mullah Omer and recipient of a piece of Berlin Wall from Mr George Bush in appreciation of his help in the Afghan war) and Asad Qureshi, a British journalist of Pakistani origin, was kidnapped by a militant group calling itself ‘Asian Tigers’. Khawaja had become famous when he announced recently that he had accompanied Mr Nawaz Sharif in some five or six meetings with the Al Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden (prior to 9/11 and apparently when Mr Sharif was still the CM of Punjab state in Pakistan) and had received six million dollars. When Mr Sharif denied that such a meeting had ever taken place, Khawaja challenged Mr Sharif to prove him wrong and promised to present all the necessary proof to prove that such meetings did take place. It is also reported that such was the degree of fear of the militant’s attack that local people, though they had seen the body, didn’t pick it up till a ‘jirga’ authorised the local administration to retrieve it. They had gone missing after traveling to North Waziristan as per advice from ex-senior officers of Pakistani Army and ISI to interview Taliban and Al Qaeda leaders. They were working on a documentary and were reportedly invited to the tribal areas by Taliban militants. One wonders as to why Khawaja was murdered while the other two were released. By any chance, were some of the demands (like the release of Afghan Taliban commanders Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar, Mullah Abdul Kabir and Mullah Mansoor Dadullah, who are in Pakistan’s custody) of the abductors met after the murder of Khawaja? Had he become a marked man for spilling the beans regarding Mr Sharif and bin Laden? Or is it due to internal discord and rivalry amongst various militant organisations?
K B KALE, Jakarta
Navhind Times, Goa
10th May 2010
http://www.navhindtimes.in/opinion/letters-editor-47
IN March 2010, Khalid Khawaja along with Colonel Imam (widely believed to have trained Mullah Omer and recipient of a piece of Berlin Wall from Mr George Bush in appreciation of his help in the Afghan war) and Asad Qureshi, a British journalist of Pakistani origin, was kidnapped by a militant group calling itself ‘Asian Tigers’. Khawaja had become famous when he announced recently that he had accompanied Mr Nawaz Sharif in some five or six meetings with the Al Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden (prior to 9/11 and apparently when Mr Sharif was still the CM of Punjab state in Pakistan) and had received six million dollars. When Mr Sharif denied that such a meeting had ever taken place, Khawaja challenged Mr Sharif to prove him wrong and promised to present all the necessary proof to prove that such meetings did take place. It is also reported that such was the degree of fear of the militant’s attack that local people, though they had seen the body, didn’t pick it up till a ‘jirga’ authorised the local administration to retrieve it. They had gone missing after traveling to North Waziristan as per advice from ex-senior officers of Pakistani Army and ISI to interview Taliban and Al Qaeda leaders. They were working on a documentary and were reportedly invited to the tribal areas by Taliban militants. One wonders as to why Khawaja was murdered while the other two were released. By any chance, were some of the demands (like the release of Afghan Taliban commanders Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar, Mullah Abdul Kabir and Mullah Mansoor Dadullah, who are in Pakistan’s custody) of the abductors met after the murder of Khawaja? Had he become a marked man for spilling the beans regarding Mr Sharif and bin Laden? Or is it due to internal discord and rivalry amongst various militant organisations?
K B KALE, Jakarta
Musharraf's Lal Masjid Action
TIME Magazine 2nd August 2007
Musharraf's Lal Masjid Action
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1649041,00.html
One feels pity for the plight of the Pakistani man on the street: he is either crushed under the heavy boots of military dictators or under pressure from fanatical clergy, and has been allowed only a few fleeting moments of democratic sunshine. But recent signs are very encouraging. People are rising in loud protests against the dismissal of their Chief Justice and the reactions of everyday Pakistani people to Musharraf's invasion of the Red Mosque seem to be sympathetic to the opponents of extremism. Whenever the silent majority remains silent, those countries fall prey to military or theocratic dictatorship. Let us hope that the Pakistani people do not present their country on a silver platter to the mullahs. They must be vocal and resist any attempt of takeover by the clergy.
K.B, Kale,
Jakarta
Musharraf's Lal Masjid Action
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1649041,00.html
One feels pity for the plight of the Pakistani man on the street: he is either crushed under the heavy boots of military dictators or under pressure from fanatical clergy, and has been allowed only a few fleeting moments of democratic sunshine. But recent signs are very encouraging. People are rising in loud protests against the dismissal of their Chief Justice and the reactions of everyday Pakistani people to Musharraf's invasion of the Red Mosque seem to be sympathetic to the opponents of extremism. Whenever the silent majority remains silent, those countries fall prey to military or theocratic dictatorship. Let us hope that the Pakistani people do not present their country on a silver platter to the mullahs. They must be vocal and resist any attempt of takeover by the clergy.
K.B, Kale,
Jakarta
Towards Better Indo-Pak Ties
Towards Better Indo-Pak Ties
http://www.navhindtimes.in/opinion/letters-editor-308
A FEW days ago, in his speech in Karachi, Mr Nawaz Sharif surprised Pakistan and probably the whole world by urging Pakistan to stop treating India as its biggest enemy calling for a ‘reappraisal of ties’ with New Delhi. Coming from an ex-PM of Pakistan, that was really a breath of fresh air. If Mr Sharif can persuade Pakistan to change its anti-Indian mindset, that day would be written in the letters of gold! It is time Pakistanis realised that their only genuine (and best) friend is India. I really admire his courage and statesmanship in making such a bold and against-the-current statement that could lead to a new golden era of mutual friendship. India has always extended a friendly hand towards Pakistan. I sincerely hope that Pakistan extends its hand of friendship towards India. Is Pakistan ready for reciprocal action? If it wishes to be friends with India, the first thing it should learn to do is refuse dole. For development of its economy and basic infrastructure, Pakistan could take loans but it should refuse to take aid in any form. Borrowing and repaying is the best policy as it is without any strings attached. Moreover, India has no interest in occupying any Pakistani territory that genuinely belongs to Pakistan. Also, if India and Pakistan decide to bury the hatchet, where would it leave the “Pakistan-China “all-weather” and “forever” friendship? Its friendship with China is based on the outdated “enemy’s enemy is my friend” principle. Going by our own “Hindi-Chini-Bhai-Bhai” friendship, the Chinese come when invited (and even when not invited) and remain “forever”. That is what their definition of “forever friendship” is. So if Pakistan wants simultaneous friendship with India and China, it would need a lot of mutual “insulation”.
K B KALE, Jakarta
http://www.navhindtimes.in/opinion/letters-editor-308
A FEW days ago, in his speech in Karachi, Mr Nawaz Sharif surprised Pakistan and probably the whole world by urging Pakistan to stop treating India as its biggest enemy calling for a ‘reappraisal of ties’ with New Delhi. Coming from an ex-PM of Pakistan, that was really a breath of fresh air. If Mr Sharif can persuade Pakistan to change its anti-Indian mindset, that day would be written in the letters of gold! It is time Pakistanis realised that their only genuine (and best) friend is India. I really admire his courage and statesmanship in making such a bold and against-the-current statement that could lead to a new golden era of mutual friendship. India has always extended a friendly hand towards Pakistan. I sincerely hope that Pakistan extends its hand of friendship towards India. Is Pakistan ready for reciprocal action? If it wishes to be friends with India, the first thing it should learn to do is refuse dole. For development of its economy and basic infrastructure, Pakistan could take loans but it should refuse to take aid in any form. Borrowing and repaying is the best policy as it is without any strings attached. Moreover, India has no interest in occupying any Pakistani territory that genuinely belongs to Pakistan. Also, if India and Pakistan decide to bury the hatchet, where would it leave the “Pakistan-China “all-weather” and “forever” friendship? Its friendship with China is based on the outdated “enemy’s enemy is my friend” principle. Going by our own “Hindi-Chini-Bhai-Bhai” friendship, the Chinese come when invited (and even when not invited) and remain “forever”. That is what their definition of “forever friendship” is. So if Pakistan wants simultaneous friendship with India and China, it would need a lot of mutual “insulation”.
K B KALE, Jakarta
Nawaz Sharif’s views
dawn.com
Nawaz Sharif’s views
26th May 2011
http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/26/nawaz-sharifs-views.html
LAST week a very thought-provoking post-Osama letter from a Pakistani (supposedly from Islamabad) appeared in the Jakarta Post suggesting that Pakistan should look for ‘another’ option!
I also feel that Pakistan should reflect for new options with an open mind and trace back its steps to figure out what brought it to its condition of today and then try to ‘undo’ all of them.
I am sure Pakistanis are as resourceful and talented as we Indians are. I don’t know how Pakistanis feel about this, but we Indians feel that Indians and Pakistanis are basically from the same stock. We appear, think, dress and (barring beef) eat alike! I am sure that if Pakistan determines to stand on its own feet, come what may, they will also come up winners like we Indians have done! For development of its economy and basic infrastructure, Pakistan could take loans but it should refuse to take aid in any form. Borrowing and repaying is the best policy as it is without any strings attached.
I can cite an Indian scenario of 1991 when Indian economy had hit rock bottom and India didn’t have the foreign exchange needed for its day-to-day requirement. In those dark days, India had airlifted its bullion to the IMF to get foreign exchange. India took this humiliating step but still refused all forms of aid. Such decisions have made Indians tough and tenacious! I hope Pakistan emulates this example on its way to greatness!
The day would be written in golden letters when Pakistanis realise that India is their friend. Nawaz Sharif expressed these feelings the other day in Karachi when he urged Pakistanis to stop looking at India as their biggest enemy. I admire his courage and statesmanship in making this statement to herald a new golden era of mutual friendship. I sincerely hope that Pakistan extends its hand of friendship towards India.
Though partition was painful, Indians have gotten over it.
K.B. KALE, Jakarta
Nawaz Sharif’s views
26th May 2011
http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/26/nawaz-sharifs-views.html
LAST week a very thought-provoking post-Osama letter from a Pakistani (supposedly from Islamabad) appeared in the Jakarta Post suggesting that Pakistan should look for ‘another’ option!
I also feel that Pakistan should reflect for new options with an open mind and trace back its steps to figure out what brought it to its condition of today and then try to ‘undo’ all of them.
I am sure Pakistanis are as resourceful and talented as we Indians are. I don’t know how Pakistanis feel about this, but we Indians feel that Indians and Pakistanis are basically from the same stock. We appear, think, dress and (barring beef) eat alike! I am sure that if Pakistan determines to stand on its own feet, come what may, they will also come up winners like we Indians have done! For development of its economy and basic infrastructure, Pakistan could take loans but it should refuse to take aid in any form. Borrowing and repaying is the best policy as it is without any strings attached.
I can cite an Indian scenario of 1991 when Indian economy had hit rock bottom and India didn’t have the foreign exchange needed for its day-to-day requirement. In those dark days, India had airlifted its bullion to the IMF to get foreign exchange. India took this humiliating step but still refused all forms of aid. Such decisions have made Indians tough and tenacious! I hope Pakistan emulates this example on its way to greatness!
The day would be written in golden letters when Pakistanis realise that India is their friend. Nawaz Sharif expressed these feelings the other day in Karachi when he urged Pakistanis to stop looking at India as their biggest enemy. I admire his courage and statesmanship in making this statement to herald a new golden era of mutual friendship. I sincerely hope that Pakistan extends its hand of friendship towards India.
Though partition was painful, Indians have gotten over it.
K.B. KALE, Jakarta
The Lamest Duck
The Lamest Duck
Bush Lives Up To Lame-Duck Position
December 25, 2008
http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/letters/your-letters-the-lamest-duck/303429
Bush, who tasted mass adulation and record approval rating after his post-9/11 speech to Congress and his subsequent action against Afghanistan, which was duly approved by the UN, now has the lowest-ever popularity rating.
Generally, most two-term US presidents are called lame ducks in their last half year in office because they can’t run again.
It is generally time for them to go around the world to shake hands with the fellow heads of state with whom they have worked for eight years and with whom they had particularly good chemistry.
They also try to tie up any loose ends from their eight years in office. Bush is doing the same.
Joe Klein of TIME magazine has given a good account of these last days of the Bush administration. He tells us about Bush’s recent visit to Santiago, Peru, to attend an Aspec meeting, where “various Asian leaders departed the stage, none of them making eye contact with him.”
He adds, “Bush had that forlorn ‘what-the-hell-happened’ expression on his face, the one that has marked his presidency at difficult times.”
Klein feels that “at a moment when there was a vast national need for reassurance, the president himself was a cipher.”
That seems to be the reason why Obama had to move in prematurely — because he knew the mess he was getting into. He declared his economic plan to create 2.5 million new jobs by the end of 2009 during the transition period itself and had to ask Congress to get the bill ready for his signature.
President Bush’s decision to invade Afghanistan was justifiable in that the 9/11 attacks were launched from Afghan soil by Osama bin Laden and the Taliban who masterminded them. He had UN approval, too. But his invasion of Iraq, without knowing much about what would and wouldn’t work in the Middle East, was a big mistake.
KB Kale, Jakarta
Bush Lives Up To Lame-Duck Position
December 25, 2008
http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/letters/your-letters-the-lamest-duck/303429
Bush, who tasted mass adulation and record approval rating after his post-9/11 speech to Congress and his subsequent action against Afghanistan, which was duly approved by the UN, now has the lowest-ever popularity rating.
Generally, most two-term US presidents are called lame ducks in their last half year in office because they can’t run again.
It is generally time for them to go around the world to shake hands with the fellow heads of state with whom they have worked for eight years and with whom they had particularly good chemistry.
They also try to tie up any loose ends from their eight years in office. Bush is doing the same.
Joe Klein of TIME magazine has given a good account of these last days of the Bush administration. He tells us about Bush’s recent visit to Santiago, Peru, to attend an Aspec meeting, where “various Asian leaders departed the stage, none of them making eye contact with him.”
He adds, “Bush had that forlorn ‘what-the-hell-happened’ expression on his face, the one that has marked his presidency at difficult times.”
Klein feels that “at a moment when there was a vast national need for reassurance, the president himself was a cipher.”
That seems to be the reason why Obama had to move in prematurely — because he knew the mess he was getting into. He declared his economic plan to create 2.5 million new jobs by the end of 2009 during the transition period itself and had to ask Congress to get the bill ready for his signature.
President Bush’s decision to invade Afghanistan was justifiable in that the 9/11 attacks were launched from Afghan soil by Osama bin Laden and the Taliban who masterminded them. He had UN approval, too. But his invasion of Iraq, without knowing much about what would and wouldn’t work in the Middle East, was a big mistake.
KB Kale, Jakarta
Kashmiri militancy fathered in Pakistan: Musharraf
Kashmiri militancy fathered in Pakistan: Musharraf
February 26, 2010, 19:07
http://zeenews.india.com/news/nation/kashmiri-militancy-fathered-in-pakistan-musharraf_607311.html
London: Former Pakistan President General Pervez Musharraf has admitted that militancy in Kashmir was actually fathered in Pakistan way back in 1989 and the process of fanning insurgency in the region was still continuing.
Addressing a meeting on the subject of ‘Leadership’ at the House of Lords committee here earlier this week, Musharraf said Kashmiri Mujahideen groups, that first came to the scene twenty years ago, enjoyed great support in Pakistan and the case is similar even now.
"The element of Kashmiri Mujahedeen is very much important in this scenario. Kashmir freedom struggle erupted in 1989 it has been going on for the last twenty years. And in this there were a dozen Mujahedeen groups which erupted in Pakistan, which created great public support for Mujahedeen groups in Kashmir and it continues even now because the issue remains unresolved," Musharraf said.
Musharraf, who is currently in London on an unannounced exile, described the long pending Kashmir issue as the core of the India-Pakistan age-old confrontation.
He stressed that until both countries resolve the issue amicably, it is difficult to establish peace and prosperity in the region.
"Kashmir is the core issue and without resolution of this imbroglio amicably, India and Pakistan can’t enjoy cordial and normal relations as neighbours. UN resolutions to this effect are intact and effective unless both the parties abandon them and seek a new dimension," Musharraf said.
Musharraf also said that a sense of 'alienation' is fast creeping into Muslim youths in India, which, he said, is the prime reason for the rapidly expanding 'Muslim extremism' in that country.
"The Muslim extremism in India, I must quote, is spreading very strongly in the youth because of their sense of alienation, a sense on unequal to equal to the Muslims therefore they are frustrated. Having said all of this about Afghanistan, Pakistan, Kashmir and India the complexity increases, because there is a linkage in all of this," the former general said.
ANI
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Comments
K B Kale - Jakarta
Could Zeenews send me the FULL text of Musharraf`s address at the House of Lords? I think it was not an address to the full House of Lords, but some selected (mostly Muslim) members of House of Lords in one of its chambers. I would like to study each word of his address. Thanks and best regards, K B Kale
Reply
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Munnabhai - USA
Bravo, Petrus! Just one correction! Hindus do care, but they see no viable alternative since they were let down by BJP which called itself a Hindu religious Party, but diluted its staunch Hindu stance for the sake of power. The demolishment of Babri Masjid was of no consequence because during the following five years, they collected bricks, but never used them. With the admission of Najma Heptullah and even Shahrukh Khan, they gave all wrong signals. If there is an Hindu alternative to Congress, Hindus will unite and vote them into power and jettison Congress and its despicable votebank politics.
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Petrus -
If Kashmir is solved, then Pakistan will start demanding Kerala and all places in India where Muslims are in majority. This monster, Pakistan, controlled by the Maulvis, will never generate peace. Only if the Pakis get rid of these Mullahs, there is a slight chance for peace. But who can do that? Not even India, for India is strenghtening the Maulvis and their Madrasas here with billions of rupees. Last budget just increased the amount for it. On the other hand Indian government has taken over the management of many Hindu shrines and uses the money to fund Christian/Islamic projects and to fill the pockets of corrupt Congress/Communist politicians. Not even 1 Rs of the income of Hindu temples goes to the restoration of Hindu temples and shrines. This can happen only because Hindus don`t give a damn!
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K B Kale - Jakarta
I have always described Musharraf is a chameleon! So nothing surprising when we see him in new colours. He still conceals that he was the one who initiated building of the terrorist networks in occupied Kashmir. This is well-documented in the book “Deception” by Adrian Levy & Catherine Scott-Clark which I strongly appeal to all Indians to read. If what he says is true, how does he describe the "bomb-a-day" situation in Pakistan? Does Musharraf call people of Swat and Waziristan as "freedom fighters" as he likes to call the terrorists in J&K? He, like most Pakistani leaders, Military or Civil or ISI, fail to realise that terrorists have no religion, no nation or no faith. They are just hired operatives and can be provoked to do anything by those who always succeed in provoking them. If Muslim youth of India feel alienated in India, the Pakistani youth are alienated twice as much there. Only thing that is harvested in Pakistan today is hatred and misdirected attacks on innocent people both here and in Pakistan. Will a good leader ever rise from the ashes of politics in Pakistan?
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Navinchandra Dave - Bharuch Gujarat
Mr.Mush ! ! ! You admits now, but in INDIA we all know the fact from very begining. Only our leaders do not know ...! ! and why should they know ? the victims are mostly the innocent people and not the politicians ...! can you tell me how many political leaders are killed in comparisson to the number of common man ?? equal to nil-.You are that much honest to admit, but our leaders are not honest enough to agree that they are ignoring the matter for some mistrerious reason known by them only.
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Syed Anwar Zaidi - New Delhi
"Musharraf also said that a sense of ‘alienation’ is fast creeping into Muslim youths in India, which, he said, is the prime reason for the rapidly expanding 'Muslim extremism' in that country." Firstly, Musharraf`s statement proves that he doesn't know the meaning of "Muslim". Which means "Musallam Eman". Holy Prophet (PBUH) said: Those who don't love their country, their Eman is weak. Muslim youths in India are followers of Holy Prophet (PBUH) and His Ahlebait(Household), so their Eman cannot be weak. Secondly, 'Alienation' is creeping into only those Muslim youths in India, who are followers of Al-Qaeda and Taliban. Who(Al-Qaeda and Taliban) are enemy of humanity. And anybody who is enemy of humanity cannot be Muslim, according to Quran, Holy Prophet (PBUH) and His Ahlebait(Household). So, Pakistan, so called Muslim country, fathering militancy, should think whether it is follower of Holy Prophet(PBUH) and His Ahlebait(House Hold) or Al-Qaeda and Taliban.
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Major (Retd) Virendra Sharma - Wellington (New Zealand)
Having said all of this about Afghanistan, Pakistan, Kashmir and India the complexity increases, because there is a linkage in all of this,” the former general said. The only linkage in all the above is Pakistan`s unholy role of a father of extremism and terrorism in the region. Pakistan has not yet learn t the lesson that those who have house of glass do not throw stones on others` houses. In it`s hatred for India it has completely forgotten that India will survive as it has from centuries, but Pakistan, which has not survived even for half a century, will be destroyed. Just give another couplet to this retired soldier, who took stupid Kargil road to reach India, ``Sub Kuch Loota Hosh mein aaye to kya kiya``. There is still time for Pakistan and it`s stupid leaders to learn lessons and stop festering terrorism from their country.
February 26, 2010, 19:07
http://zeenews.india.com/news/nation/kashmiri-militancy-fathered-in-pakistan-musharraf_607311.html
London: Former Pakistan President General Pervez Musharraf has admitted that militancy in Kashmir was actually fathered in Pakistan way back in 1989 and the process of fanning insurgency in the region was still continuing.
Addressing a meeting on the subject of ‘Leadership’ at the House of Lords committee here earlier this week, Musharraf said Kashmiri Mujahideen groups, that first came to the scene twenty years ago, enjoyed great support in Pakistan and the case is similar even now.
"The element of Kashmiri Mujahedeen is very much important in this scenario. Kashmir freedom struggle erupted in 1989 it has been going on for the last twenty years. And in this there were a dozen Mujahedeen groups which erupted in Pakistan, which created great public support for Mujahedeen groups in Kashmir and it continues even now because the issue remains unresolved," Musharraf said.
Musharraf, who is currently in London on an unannounced exile, described the long pending Kashmir issue as the core of the India-Pakistan age-old confrontation.
He stressed that until both countries resolve the issue amicably, it is difficult to establish peace and prosperity in the region.
"Kashmir is the core issue and without resolution of this imbroglio amicably, India and Pakistan can’t enjoy cordial and normal relations as neighbours. UN resolutions to this effect are intact and effective unless both the parties abandon them and seek a new dimension," Musharraf said.
Musharraf also said that a sense of 'alienation' is fast creeping into Muslim youths in India, which, he said, is the prime reason for the rapidly expanding 'Muslim extremism' in that country.
"The Muslim extremism in India, I must quote, is spreading very strongly in the youth because of their sense of alienation, a sense on unequal to equal to the Muslims therefore they are frustrated. Having said all of this about Afghanistan, Pakistan, Kashmir and India the complexity increases, because there is a linkage in all of this," the former general said.
ANI
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Comments
K B Kale - Jakarta
Could Zeenews send me the FULL text of Musharraf`s address at the House of Lords? I think it was not an address to the full House of Lords, but some selected (mostly Muslim) members of House of Lords in one of its chambers. I would like to study each word of his address. Thanks and best regards, K B Kale
Reply
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Munnabhai - USA
Bravo, Petrus! Just one correction! Hindus do care, but they see no viable alternative since they were let down by BJP which called itself a Hindu religious Party, but diluted its staunch Hindu stance for the sake of power. The demolishment of Babri Masjid was of no consequence because during the following five years, they collected bricks, but never used them. With the admission of Najma Heptullah and even Shahrukh Khan, they gave all wrong signals. If there is an Hindu alternative to Congress, Hindus will unite and vote them into power and jettison Congress and its despicable votebank politics.
Reply
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Petrus -
If Kashmir is solved, then Pakistan will start demanding Kerala and all places in India where Muslims are in majority. This monster, Pakistan, controlled by the Maulvis, will never generate peace. Only if the Pakis get rid of these Mullahs, there is a slight chance for peace. But who can do that? Not even India, for India is strenghtening the Maulvis and their Madrasas here with billions of rupees. Last budget just increased the amount for it. On the other hand Indian government has taken over the management of many Hindu shrines and uses the money to fund Christian/Islamic projects and to fill the pockets of corrupt Congress/Communist politicians. Not even 1 Rs of the income of Hindu temples goes to the restoration of Hindu temples and shrines. This can happen only because Hindus don`t give a damn!
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K B Kale - Jakarta
I have always described Musharraf is a chameleon! So nothing surprising when we see him in new colours. He still conceals that he was the one who initiated building of the terrorist networks in occupied Kashmir. This is well-documented in the book “Deception” by Adrian Levy & Catherine Scott-Clark which I strongly appeal to all Indians to read. If what he says is true, how does he describe the "bomb-a-day" situation in Pakistan? Does Musharraf call people of Swat and Waziristan as "freedom fighters" as he likes to call the terrorists in J&K? He, like most Pakistani leaders, Military or Civil or ISI, fail to realise that terrorists have no religion, no nation or no faith. They are just hired operatives and can be provoked to do anything by those who always succeed in provoking them. If Muslim youth of India feel alienated in India, the Pakistani youth are alienated twice as much there. Only thing that is harvested in Pakistan today is hatred and misdirected attacks on innocent people both here and in Pakistan. Will a good leader ever rise from the ashes of politics in Pakistan?
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Navinchandra Dave - Bharuch Gujarat
Mr.Mush ! ! ! You admits now, but in INDIA we all know the fact from very begining. Only our leaders do not know ...! ! and why should they know ? the victims are mostly the innocent people and not the politicians ...! can you tell me how many political leaders are killed in comparisson to the number of common man ?? equal to nil-.You are that much honest to admit, but our leaders are not honest enough to agree that they are ignoring the matter for some mistrerious reason known by them only.
Reply
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Syed Anwar Zaidi - New Delhi
"Musharraf also said that a sense of ‘alienation’ is fast creeping into Muslim youths in India, which, he said, is the prime reason for the rapidly expanding 'Muslim extremism' in that country." Firstly, Musharraf`s statement proves that he doesn't know the meaning of "Muslim". Which means "Musallam Eman". Holy Prophet (PBUH) said: Those who don't love their country, their Eman is weak. Muslim youths in India are followers of Holy Prophet (PBUH) and His Ahlebait(Household), so their Eman cannot be weak. Secondly, 'Alienation' is creeping into only those Muslim youths in India, who are followers of Al-Qaeda and Taliban. Who(Al-Qaeda and Taliban) are enemy of humanity. And anybody who is enemy of humanity cannot be Muslim, according to Quran, Holy Prophet (PBUH) and His Ahlebait(Household). So, Pakistan, so called Muslim country, fathering militancy, should think whether it is follower of Holy Prophet(PBUH) and His Ahlebait(House Hold) or Al-Qaeda and Taliban.
Reply
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Major (Retd) Virendra Sharma - Wellington (New Zealand)
Having said all of this about Afghanistan, Pakistan, Kashmir and India the complexity increases, because there is a linkage in all of this,” the former general said. The only linkage in all the above is Pakistan`s unholy role of a father of extremism and terrorism in the region. Pakistan has not yet learn t the lesson that those who have house of glass do not throw stones on others` houses. In it`s hatred for India it has completely forgotten that India will survive as it has from centuries, but Pakistan, which has not survived even for half a century, will be destroyed. Just give another couplet to this retired soldier, who took stupid Kargil road to reach India, ``Sub Kuch Loota Hosh mein aaye to kya kiya``. There is still time for Pakistan and it`s stupid leaders to learn lessons and stop festering terrorism from their country.
Importance of women’s education
Importance of women’s education
From the Newspaper
March 25, 2011
I AM a regular reader of your paper and enjoy reading thoughtful articles by Hajrah Mumtaz. Her two recent articles, ‘The Azazel of ignorance’ (March 14) and ‘The benefit of grey’ (March 21), were really very impressive.
The second article, ‘The benefit of grey’, hits the nail on the head. I fully agree with her that what Pakistan really needs is educating its masses in the correct type of education, not only technical, medicine, etc., but also in the social sciences.
However, she seems to have missed one important point. There is a saying in my mother tongue, Marathi, that the hands that rock the cradle contribute to the progress of mankind.
In other words, all progressive countries must have, so to say, a mothers’ brigade to take their country on the path of progress.
Ms Hajrah, herself a woman, could have stressed this point strongly in her article but it is missing.
I think that, by the very nature and instincts, all males tend to be brutish and unless moderated by intelligent, feminine intervention, an all-male society would destroy itself. Children brought up by educated and emancipated mothers would be more understanding and temperate who could see ‘shades of grey’ (as Ms Hajrah puts it) in practical life.
That is why educating women is important to every country and society and it is particularly important in male-dominated societies in Asia.
India has taken great strides in women’s education. In some states in India, girls get free education till equivalent of A level.
Pakistan could emulate such good steps.
K.B. KALE, Jakarta
From the Newspaper
March 25, 2011
I AM a regular reader of your paper and enjoy reading thoughtful articles by Hajrah Mumtaz. Her two recent articles, ‘The Azazel of ignorance’ (March 14) and ‘The benefit of grey’ (March 21), were really very impressive.
The second article, ‘The benefit of grey’, hits the nail on the head. I fully agree with her that what Pakistan really needs is educating its masses in the correct type of education, not only technical, medicine, etc., but also in the social sciences.
However, she seems to have missed one important point. There is a saying in my mother tongue, Marathi, that the hands that rock the cradle contribute to the progress of mankind.
In other words, all progressive countries must have, so to say, a mothers’ brigade to take their country on the path of progress.
Ms Hajrah, herself a woman, could have stressed this point strongly in her article but it is missing.
I think that, by the very nature and instincts, all males tend to be brutish and unless moderated by intelligent, feminine intervention, an all-male society would destroy itself. Children brought up by educated and emancipated mothers would be more understanding and temperate who could see ‘shades of grey’ (as Ms Hajrah puts it) in practical life.
That is why educating women is important to every country and society and it is particularly important in male-dominated societies in Asia.
India has taken great strides in women’s education. In some states in India, girls get free education till equivalent of A level.
Pakistan could emulate such good steps.
K.B. KALE, Jakarta
Chatham House: Pakistan Option Unpopular with Kashmiris
Chatham House: Pakistan Option Unpopular with Kashmiris
May 28 – A study by Robert Bradrock, a scholar from London’s Kings College for Chatham House, has found just 2 percent of Kashmiris on the Indian side favor uniting the disputed Jammu and Kashmir territory with Pakistan, and that support amongst other groups to do so was also a minority view.
The study involved interviewing 3,774 people in both parts of Kashmir in September and October of 2009. The findings contradict common Pakistani state and media statements that most Kashmiris wish to join Pakistan.
The survey showed that 44 percent of people on the Pakistani side favored independence, compared to 43 percent in Indian Kashmir. The author says in the 37-page report on the survey that this would put an end to the option for a Kashmir-wide vote as a possible way to resolve the issue, since the only two options envisaged under the UN resolutions proposing this in 1948-49 were for the whole of Kashmir to join either India or Pakistan; independence was not an option.
In the valley, the mood for independence still remained strong, with 75 percent to 95 percent of respondents favoring it as a final resolution.
The poll showed no support either for joint sovereignty or for maintaining the status quo. More than 58 percent of those surveyed were prepared to accept the Line of Control as a permanent border if it could be liberalized for greater people-to-people contact and trade. According to the survey, only 8 percent opted against making the LoC a permanent boundary.
This entry was posted on Friday, May 28th, 2010 at 5:05 pm and is filed under Politics. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently not allowed.
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21 Responses to “Chatham House: Pakistan Option Unpopular with Kashmiris”
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K B Kale Says:
May 29th, 2010 at 12:04 am
Who in the right frame of mind would vote to opt to join a country where democratic governments are rare and are routinely deposed by its military, a country where organizations like ISI report to neither the Government nor to the military, a country which establishes training camps for terrorists and foments destabilizing actions in neighboring countries like India and Afghanistan, a country that might fall to organizations Taliban or Al Qaeda any moment?
Pakistan is a country which has no connection between its rulers (who have no qualms of receiving billions from USA in aid and siphoning a major portion of it to build their own fiefdoms) and its citizen who hate USA!
No wonder they would rather have a status quo!
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K B Kale Says:
May 29th, 2010 at 12:32 am
Chatham House should conduct another poll by giving only three choice:
1. Join Pakistan
2. Join India
3. Status Quo
The results might be very interesting…..
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The_Observer Says:
May 29th, 2010 at 8:10 am
The title is biased. This study is actually saying that the Kashmiris really want independence for the whole of Kashmir and not to be ruled either by India or Pakistan.
This is one of the unresolved issues left over from the British Empire in India.
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The_Observer Says:
May 31st, 2010 at 10:49 am
@K B Kale
Your multiple choice misses one selection. If you are arguing on the point of what the people of Kashmir want then the option that the whole of Kashmir be granted its independence is a legitimate one? That way the Kashmiris can deal with India and Pakistan on an equal footing.
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Chris Devonshire-Ellis Says:
May 31st, 2010 at 1:08 pm
The results appear to demonstrate that the indigenous population want independence. That, based upon the model of the British Empire hand back would appear to be the morally correct one. So why is that as an option apparently not on the cards and why is a 62 year old UN resolution standing in the way? – Chris
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Lone Star Says:
June 3rd, 2010 at 11:55 am
Creating a small islamic nation sandwitched between India, china and Pakistan will be a disastrous move. A mini afghanistan is written all over it. At least the Indian Kashmiris enjoy Indians protecting them from Taliban, LeT, Al qaida etc. It will turn into a Kandhahar in no time with independence. scary indeed
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K B Kale Says:
June 3rd, 2010 at 6:25 pm
Plebiscite was to be taken to choose between merger with India or Pakistan. No state was given the freedom of remaining independent. By the same norm, Baluchistan would be a nation today!
I still feel that J&K could decide whether they wish to merge with democratic India or intermittent dictatorship in Pakistan!
Why can’t Pakistanis swallow the will of the people?
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The_Observer Says:
June 5th, 2010 at 7:29 am
@Lone Star
Why should the religion of the Kashmiri people be a bar to their independence? You could put forward the argument that it would actually be great for there to be a buffer state between India and Pakistan, i.e put some distance between the two. If you get both India and Pakistan to agree to Kashmir’s independence I’m sure the Kashmiri’s would want to remove any Jihadists themselves and defend their own borders. This could take place under the auspices of the UN and the US which could act mid-wives to such an undertaking. The US because it has interests in both India and Pakistan and can act as an “honest broker” (for once). That then frees Pakistan from worries on her eastern front and would remove the excuse of not helping out NATO more in Afghanistan.
@K B Kale
You are being disingenuous. First it was India who didn’t implement that original plebiscite and decided to absorb Kashmir into India instead. You then compounded your inconsistency by using a loaded question. I doubt if any new plebiscite with a limited choice would be considered fair by the Kashmiris or by the world community in general.
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K B Kale Says:
June 5th, 2010 at 11:01 am
At the time of partition, all states were given only two choices viz. either join India or join Pakistan. If the choice of ‘independence’ was also given, we would be having 50-odd states of “United States of India”!
The UN Resolution you referred to also had a precondition of Pakistan vacating its encroachment on the occupied part of Kashmir State that Raja Hari Singh merged with India. Pakistan never kept their part of the bargain! All Pakistanis who are good in history know this but feign ignorance!
Anyway, today the erstwhile Hindus have been terrorized to flee their own State, so plebiscite is meaningless as a sizable part of the original Kashmiri population is in India.
Anyway, if Pakistan ever vacates its aggression thus allowing the plebiscite to be taken, it will have to be for either merger with India or Pakistan.
I hope this covers all areas of the arguments.
The fact is that in the “Chatham House poll” hardly any Kashmiri on either side of the “Line of Control” has shown ‘enthusiasm’ to merge with Pakistan. For Indians, it is not surprising, but difficult for Pakistanis to digest!
It is time Pakistanis become introvert and try to get another “freedom” from the Military and establish a good democratic government so that there would be some enthusiasm amongst the Kashmiris to even consider a merger with Pakistan. It’s time Pakistan becomes mature enough to take corrective actions at home!
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showkat Says:
June 5th, 2010 at 2:17 pm
I am a Kashmiri living in Indian part of Kashmir.
i respect all the views expressed here. people living in india and pakistan try to draw their own conclusions from the survey.
as a state subject, given choice, i would NOT prefer to join Pakistan. apart from religion there seems to be no reason for this bond and if i have to go by the religion then I am better of with Indonesia or Saudi Arabia or Malaysia or a host of other countries that are at the top of the list than to go to the bottom of the list.
this is what the survey has shown, but let us not draw conclusions at this point. let us take one more step and then analyse the results.
if u go back to my ‘choices’ you will find there are actually no choices mentioned there. THIS IS THE MAIN POINT I WISH TO DRAW YOUR ATTENTION TO.
everybody is highlighting the 2 percent figure, but if u r honest then u need to juxtapose this 2% with the 95% figure as well.
if I am given to choose from independence or Pak I will surely choose independence, but at the same time if I am given to choose from India or Pak I will choose Pak.
Now try to draw conclusions from this!
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The_Observer Says:
June 5th, 2010 at 3:05 pm
@K B Kale
So the Indians would be happy to have their country the way the British put their Empire in India together. What are you trying to say, that India reconstitute that? You would have to include Pakistan, Bangladesh, Myanmar and Nepal, Bhutan and Sikkim (oops! Forgot India already grabbed that last one). You would also have to step on China’s toes for parts of Tibet (oh, you are doing that already in AP). You would have thought that the Indians would be grateful to the British for India’s large landmass, the English language, the railways, civil service and common law but they often grumble about the British. If there was one mistake the British made it is the following. From my understanding of the history of Indian and Pakistani independence there was a lot of movement of Muslims in one direction and Hindus in the other just before independence. There was communal fighting and many died.
But back to the present. There is precedence for large minorities to break away from unwieldy country setups. The Americans and NATO started it in the former Yugoslavia and The Russians played mid-wife and delivered South Ossetia from Georgie.
Likewise, as the Indians got their independence from Britain, I think the Kashmiris should be given the opportunity to VOTE for theirs. And it should not be a restricted poll as that would be biased. The real will of the current voter population should be reflected in the final tally not the least worse of a restricted choice.
Think about it if India grants Kashmir independence she would have a buffer state between yourselves and Pakistan. India could remove a large number of troops there and with the savings improve the already fast growing Indian economy. India could also spend more time and resources cultivating cultural, diplomatic and economic ties with fellow S. Asian countries.
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K B Kale Says:
June 6th, 2010 at 10:53 am
This is becoming one-on-one dialogue, so this is my last response.
I am too small a man to go into a fresh procedure of solving Kashmir problem from the stage of “an undivided India”!
I was basically referring to the results of the Chatham House poll where I read about the reluctance of Kashmiris to merge with Pakistan. All Pakistanis should think of the reasons.
I don’t know whether you are a Pakistani citizen, but I genuinely admire Pakistanis! A country where democracy has existed more or less like punctuation marks between series of military dictatorships (Ayub Khan, Yahya Khan, Zia Ul-Haq and Musharraf) talks loudest about people’s will elsewhere!
So carry on and good luck to you all!!!
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K B Kale Says:
June 7th, 2010 at 11:18 am
Dear Mr Showkat,
I am happy to receive a comment from a Kashmiri person.
But I am confused as to what you wish to say! At one place you say, “as a state subject, given choice, i would NOT prefer to join Pakistan” and at another place you say,”if I am given to choose from India or Pak I will choose Pak”.
Anyway, I had drawn my conclusions which were confirmed by Chatham House report. It is case similar to Quebecois demand for a separate state. When a poll was held, the separatist party lost the vote!
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showkat kreeri Says:
June 8th, 2010 at 5:16 pm
dEAR K.B.KALE SAHIB
I am sorry to say, but if u had rather keenly read my post you’d have noticed that the point u r raising has already been raised and answered by me in the same post itself:
“if u go back to my ‘choices’ you will find there are actually no choices mentioned there. THIS IS THE MAIN POINT I WISH TO DRAW YOUR ATTENTION TO”
when u say choose, u got to give options. when i say ‘given choice’ i did not mention the options ‘to choose from’.
To put it simply:
When options are
1. India
2. Pakistan
3. Independence
i will NOT go for Pakistan (i will choose Independence)
But if options are
1. India
2. Pakistan
then i will go with Pakistan
IT IS NOT THE ‘OPTION CHOSEN’ ALONE THAT MATTERS.
THE VARIETY OF OPTIONS TO CHOOSE FROM ALSO MATTER.
IN THE CASE OF THIS SURVEY YOU HAVE TO READ IT IN THE COMPLETE CONTEXT SO AS NOT TO GET MISLEAD BY THE RESULTS, PEOPLE SO VEHEMENTLY DEBATE ABOUT HERE.
PS: People here discuss the issue using hatred for each other. I am the sufferer of Kashmir problem, but i still consider Indians and Pakistanis my lost brothers.You can be good patriots even without hating the other country and their folk.I hope i did not offend anybody here.
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K B Kale Says:
June 12th, 2010 at 8:14 pm
Dear Mr. Showkat,
Sorry for delay in responding. Was busy with some urgent work.
I believe none of us are ready to open the proverbial Pandora’s Box by opening the third “independence” choice! Not me, at least!!
The British left mainly because they were too weak to continue to run their empire after two consecutive wars, viz. WW-1 and WW-2, wore them down fully. They didn’t motivate us Indians to split their country. We did it-rightly or wrongly- all by ourselves.
Now we go back to the times of partition. There were innumerable Princely States in the then undivided India. The areas which were beyond the Princely States were split on the basis of population. But the Princely States were given a choice to either merge with India or Pakistan. None was given the choice of remaining independent because, purely for selfish reasons so that they could continue to rule, the Princes would have liked that.
So I had said we give only these two choices.
But today taking a plebiscite is meaningless because the Hindu population of J&K has been forced out from their homes.
If J&K wants to have the third choice of total independence and if it is given, it will doubtless open the Pandora’s Box because many states in Pakistan and India would voice their desire to be independent, particularly the rich states including mine.
Anyway, we are discussing hypotheses. A plebiscite is meaningless as a major portion of the Kashmiri population which was supposed to vote is no more in Kashmir. And Pakistan has not vacated the occupied part of the Valley as required as a pre-requisite to plebiscite.
But hypothetically if the opinion poll is taken about choosing India or Pakistan, despite the rhetoric of the type you have written, the sane section of Kashmiri population will vote to merge with India because Pakistan is not worth merging with.
I am sure Kashmiris know which side of the bread is buttered.
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dr hamidwani Says:
July 9th, 2010 at 11:24 am
there has been lot of blood shed here in the subcontient since the partation especially in the name of kashmir. the time has come to resolve this issue for sake of all the people who own the kashmir irrespective of religion. what i support is tha whole J&k which is kashmir on both sides of border ,leh/ladak & the part gifted by pakistan to china must be vaccated from the armies/security forces/police of all the occuping countries for a period of 10 yrs & shall be under control of UNO. let all migrants return to thier homeland & then after 10 yrs let there be honest refrendum as to what the people want & respect that.
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K B Kale Says:
July 9th, 2010 at 5:58 pm
Dear Dr Hamidwani,
I can say that your suggestion looks like a logical solution and I could feel your honesty and sincerity in making this suggestion, but unfortunately it is more of a dream!
Non-Muslim migrants are unlikely to return for the fear of their lives; the very reason they left in the first place. I have many close Hindu friends who have left in this way and they say they can never return unless there is peace first in the valley.
So now it is “a hen or an egg” situation.
If Kashmir is permanently split along the current LoC and if LoC is accepted as an international border and if the militancy, either orchestrated or genuine, stops, there can be no progress towards peace.
Too many ‘if’s, isn’t it?
It is unfortunate, but that is the ground reality.
dr hamidwani Says:
July 10th, 2010 at 3:45 pm
then the unwanted blood shed will continue. I feel Great Britian has to play greater role in solving this ‘humane’ ,issuse as it was created by them. we kashmiris have been suffering sine 1931. do something please !!!
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K B Kale Says:
July 10th, 2010 at 5:32 pm
The division of India on religious basis was not British idea, but it was mooted by (if I remember right) Muslim League and Muhammad Ali Jinnah (Quaid-e-Azam) was the spearhead of this movement. So why bother the Brits?
That time, only two choices were on the table for the Princely States namely: merge with India or merge with Pakistan. Rightly or wrongly, it was not left to the people of these Princely States, but the rulers of these Princely States to deciede. Raja Hari Singh decided to merge with India.
No choice of “Independent States” was available.
So Kashmiris can vote for one of these two choics if ever a plebiscite is held which stipulates some pre-conditions which will never be fulfilled. That is why I said that plebiscite is a dream, a good dream. The Chatham report suggests that Kashmiris would prefer to be in India than in Pakistan. A very prudent choice, I must add.
If Plebiscite is ever held on the basis of these choices (miracles CAN happen!), I am sure that Kashmiris will vote for merger with India. Again a very prudent choice, I must add.
Who would choose to live in Pakistan by one’s own choice?
So my recommendation stands! Divide the J&K State at LoC and live happily ever after.
I have no more to add to this dialogue now.
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Carlos Says:
July 11th, 2010 at 3:51 am
If EVER India has to give up Kashmir, it will be only the Valley not Jammu or Ladakh. That too, after sealing off borders effectively to prevent Islamic terrorists from Kashmir and Pakistan from trying to enter India.
Also, after destroying ALL infrastructure created in Kashmir with Indian money.
Muslim Kashmiris deserve Porkistan. Its their Allah given right to be become jihadis and be martryed. They don’t deserve anything better.
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K B Kale Says:
July 12th, 2010 at 7:36 pm
No, Mr Carlos, this is no way to write and drive our Kashmiri brethren away from us.
They will see the futility of armed struggle and jihads and stop it and return to our fold. But if we write like this, they will be turned off towards India.
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May 28 – A study by Robert Bradrock, a scholar from London’s Kings College for Chatham House, has found just 2 percent of Kashmiris on the Indian side favor uniting the disputed Jammu and Kashmir territory with Pakistan, and that support amongst other groups to do so was also a minority view.
The study involved interviewing 3,774 people in both parts of Kashmir in September and October of 2009. The findings contradict common Pakistani state and media statements that most Kashmiris wish to join Pakistan.
The survey showed that 44 percent of people on the Pakistani side favored independence, compared to 43 percent in Indian Kashmir. The author says in the 37-page report on the survey that this would put an end to the option for a Kashmir-wide vote as a possible way to resolve the issue, since the only two options envisaged under the UN resolutions proposing this in 1948-49 were for the whole of Kashmir to join either India or Pakistan; independence was not an option.
In the valley, the mood for independence still remained strong, with 75 percent to 95 percent of respondents favoring it as a final resolution.
The poll showed no support either for joint sovereignty or for maintaining the status quo. More than 58 percent of those surveyed were prepared to accept the Line of Control as a permanent border if it could be liberalized for greater people-to-people contact and trade. According to the survey, only 8 percent opted against making the LoC a permanent boundary.
This entry was posted on Friday, May 28th, 2010 at 5:05 pm and is filed under Politics. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently not allowed.
------------------------
21 Responses to “Chatham House: Pakistan Option Unpopular with Kashmiris”
------------------------
K B Kale Says:
May 29th, 2010 at 12:04 am
Who in the right frame of mind would vote to opt to join a country where democratic governments are rare and are routinely deposed by its military, a country where organizations like ISI report to neither the Government nor to the military, a country which establishes training camps for terrorists and foments destabilizing actions in neighboring countries like India and Afghanistan, a country that might fall to organizations Taliban or Al Qaeda any moment?
Pakistan is a country which has no connection between its rulers (who have no qualms of receiving billions from USA in aid and siphoning a major portion of it to build their own fiefdoms) and its citizen who hate USA!
No wonder they would rather have a status quo!
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K B Kale Says:
May 29th, 2010 at 12:32 am
Chatham House should conduct another poll by giving only three choice:
1. Join Pakistan
2. Join India
3. Status Quo
The results might be very interesting…..
------------------------
The_Observer Says:
May 29th, 2010 at 8:10 am
The title is biased. This study is actually saying that the Kashmiris really want independence for the whole of Kashmir and not to be ruled either by India or Pakistan.
This is one of the unresolved issues left over from the British Empire in India.
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The_Observer Says:
May 31st, 2010 at 10:49 am
@K B Kale
Your multiple choice misses one selection. If you are arguing on the point of what the people of Kashmir want then the option that the whole of Kashmir be granted its independence is a legitimate one? That way the Kashmiris can deal with India and Pakistan on an equal footing.
------------------------
Chris Devonshire-Ellis Says:
May 31st, 2010 at 1:08 pm
The results appear to demonstrate that the indigenous population want independence. That, based upon the model of the British Empire hand back would appear to be the morally correct one. So why is that as an option apparently not on the cards and why is a 62 year old UN resolution standing in the way? – Chris
------------------------
Lone Star Says:
June 3rd, 2010 at 11:55 am
Creating a small islamic nation sandwitched between India, china and Pakistan will be a disastrous move. A mini afghanistan is written all over it. At least the Indian Kashmiris enjoy Indians protecting them from Taliban, LeT, Al qaida etc. It will turn into a Kandhahar in no time with independence. scary indeed
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K B Kale Says:
June 3rd, 2010 at 6:25 pm
Plebiscite was to be taken to choose between merger with India or Pakistan. No state was given the freedom of remaining independent. By the same norm, Baluchistan would be a nation today!
I still feel that J&K could decide whether they wish to merge with democratic India or intermittent dictatorship in Pakistan!
Why can’t Pakistanis swallow the will of the people?
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The_Observer Says:
June 5th, 2010 at 7:29 am
@Lone Star
Why should the religion of the Kashmiri people be a bar to their independence? You could put forward the argument that it would actually be great for there to be a buffer state between India and Pakistan, i.e put some distance between the two. If you get both India and Pakistan to agree to Kashmir’s independence I’m sure the Kashmiri’s would want to remove any Jihadists themselves and defend their own borders. This could take place under the auspices of the UN and the US which could act mid-wives to such an undertaking. The US because it has interests in both India and Pakistan and can act as an “honest broker” (for once). That then frees Pakistan from worries on her eastern front and would remove the excuse of not helping out NATO more in Afghanistan.
@K B Kale
You are being disingenuous. First it was India who didn’t implement that original plebiscite and decided to absorb Kashmir into India instead. You then compounded your inconsistency by using a loaded question. I doubt if any new plebiscite with a limited choice would be considered fair by the Kashmiris or by the world community in general.
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K B Kale Says:
June 5th, 2010 at 11:01 am
At the time of partition, all states were given only two choices viz. either join India or join Pakistan. If the choice of ‘independence’ was also given, we would be having 50-odd states of “United States of India”!
The UN Resolution you referred to also had a precondition of Pakistan vacating its encroachment on the occupied part of Kashmir State that Raja Hari Singh merged with India. Pakistan never kept their part of the bargain! All Pakistanis who are good in history know this but feign ignorance!
Anyway, today the erstwhile Hindus have been terrorized to flee their own State, so plebiscite is meaningless as a sizable part of the original Kashmiri population is in India.
Anyway, if Pakistan ever vacates its aggression thus allowing the plebiscite to be taken, it will have to be for either merger with India or Pakistan.
I hope this covers all areas of the arguments.
The fact is that in the “Chatham House poll” hardly any Kashmiri on either side of the “Line of Control” has shown ‘enthusiasm’ to merge with Pakistan. For Indians, it is not surprising, but difficult for Pakistanis to digest!
It is time Pakistanis become introvert and try to get another “freedom” from the Military and establish a good democratic government so that there would be some enthusiasm amongst the Kashmiris to even consider a merger with Pakistan. It’s time Pakistan becomes mature enough to take corrective actions at home!
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showkat Says:
June 5th, 2010 at 2:17 pm
I am a Kashmiri living in Indian part of Kashmir.
i respect all the views expressed here. people living in india and pakistan try to draw their own conclusions from the survey.
as a state subject, given choice, i would NOT prefer to join Pakistan. apart from religion there seems to be no reason for this bond and if i have to go by the religion then I am better of with Indonesia or Saudi Arabia or Malaysia or a host of other countries that are at the top of the list than to go to the bottom of the list.
this is what the survey has shown, but let us not draw conclusions at this point. let us take one more step and then analyse the results.
if u go back to my ‘choices’ you will find there are actually no choices mentioned there. THIS IS THE MAIN POINT I WISH TO DRAW YOUR ATTENTION TO.
everybody is highlighting the 2 percent figure, but if u r honest then u need to juxtapose this 2% with the 95% figure as well.
if I am given to choose from independence or Pak I will surely choose independence, but at the same time if I am given to choose from India or Pak I will choose Pak.
Now try to draw conclusions from this!
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The_Observer Says:
June 5th, 2010 at 3:05 pm
@K B Kale
So the Indians would be happy to have their country the way the British put their Empire in India together. What are you trying to say, that India reconstitute that? You would have to include Pakistan, Bangladesh, Myanmar and Nepal, Bhutan and Sikkim (oops! Forgot India already grabbed that last one). You would also have to step on China’s toes for parts of Tibet (oh, you are doing that already in AP). You would have thought that the Indians would be grateful to the British for India’s large landmass, the English language, the railways, civil service and common law but they often grumble about the British. If there was one mistake the British made it is the following. From my understanding of the history of Indian and Pakistani independence there was a lot of movement of Muslims in one direction and Hindus in the other just before independence. There was communal fighting and many died.
But back to the present. There is precedence for large minorities to break away from unwieldy country setups. The Americans and NATO started it in the former Yugoslavia and The Russians played mid-wife and delivered South Ossetia from Georgie.
Likewise, as the Indians got their independence from Britain, I think the Kashmiris should be given the opportunity to VOTE for theirs. And it should not be a restricted poll as that would be biased. The real will of the current voter population should be reflected in the final tally not the least worse of a restricted choice.
Think about it if India grants Kashmir independence she would have a buffer state between yourselves and Pakistan. India could remove a large number of troops there and with the savings improve the already fast growing Indian economy. India could also spend more time and resources cultivating cultural, diplomatic and economic ties with fellow S. Asian countries.
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K B Kale Says:
June 6th, 2010 at 10:53 am
This is becoming one-on-one dialogue, so this is my last response.
I am too small a man to go into a fresh procedure of solving Kashmir problem from the stage of “an undivided India”!
I was basically referring to the results of the Chatham House poll where I read about the reluctance of Kashmiris to merge with Pakistan. All Pakistanis should think of the reasons.
I don’t know whether you are a Pakistani citizen, but I genuinely admire Pakistanis! A country where democracy has existed more or less like punctuation marks between series of military dictatorships (Ayub Khan, Yahya Khan, Zia Ul-Haq and Musharraf) talks loudest about people’s will elsewhere!
So carry on and good luck to you all!!!
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K B Kale Says:
June 7th, 2010 at 11:18 am
Dear Mr Showkat,
I am happy to receive a comment from a Kashmiri person.
But I am confused as to what you wish to say! At one place you say, “as a state subject, given choice, i would NOT prefer to join Pakistan” and at another place you say,”if I am given to choose from India or Pak I will choose Pak”.
Anyway, I had drawn my conclusions which were confirmed by Chatham House report. It is case similar to Quebecois demand for a separate state. When a poll was held, the separatist party lost the vote!
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showkat kreeri Says:
June 8th, 2010 at 5:16 pm
dEAR K.B.KALE SAHIB
I am sorry to say, but if u had rather keenly read my post you’d have noticed that the point u r raising has already been raised and answered by me in the same post itself:
“if u go back to my ‘choices’ you will find there are actually no choices mentioned there. THIS IS THE MAIN POINT I WISH TO DRAW YOUR ATTENTION TO”
when u say choose, u got to give options. when i say ‘given choice’ i did not mention the options ‘to choose from’.
To put it simply:
When options are
1. India
2. Pakistan
3. Independence
i will NOT go for Pakistan (i will choose Independence)
But if options are
1. India
2. Pakistan
then i will go with Pakistan
IT IS NOT THE ‘OPTION CHOSEN’ ALONE THAT MATTERS.
THE VARIETY OF OPTIONS TO CHOOSE FROM ALSO MATTER.
IN THE CASE OF THIS SURVEY YOU HAVE TO READ IT IN THE COMPLETE CONTEXT SO AS NOT TO GET MISLEAD BY THE RESULTS, PEOPLE SO VEHEMENTLY DEBATE ABOUT HERE.
PS: People here discuss the issue using hatred for each other. I am the sufferer of Kashmir problem, but i still consider Indians and Pakistanis my lost brothers.You can be good patriots even without hating the other country and their folk.I hope i did not offend anybody here.
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K B Kale Says:
June 12th, 2010 at 8:14 pm
Dear Mr. Showkat,
Sorry for delay in responding. Was busy with some urgent work.
I believe none of us are ready to open the proverbial Pandora’s Box by opening the third “independence” choice! Not me, at least!!
The British left mainly because they were too weak to continue to run their empire after two consecutive wars, viz. WW-1 and WW-2, wore them down fully. They didn’t motivate us Indians to split their country. We did it-rightly or wrongly- all by ourselves.
Now we go back to the times of partition. There were innumerable Princely States in the then undivided India. The areas which were beyond the Princely States were split on the basis of population. But the Princely States were given a choice to either merge with India or Pakistan. None was given the choice of remaining independent because, purely for selfish reasons so that they could continue to rule, the Princes would have liked that.
So I had said we give only these two choices.
But today taking a plebiscite is meaningless because the Hindu population of J&K has been forced out from their homes.
If J&K wants to have the third choice of total independence and if it is given, it will doubtless open the Pandora’s Box because many states in Pakistan and India would voice their desire to be independent, particularly the rich states including mine.
Anyway, we are discussing hypotheses. A plebiscite is meaningless as a major portion of the Kashmiri population which was supposed to vote is no more in Kashmir. And Pakistan has not vacated the occupied part of the Valley as required as a pre-requisite to plebiscite.
But hypothetically if the opinion poll is taken about choosing India or Pakistan, despite the rhetoric of the type you have written, the sane section of Kashmiri population will vote to merge with India because Pakistan is not worth merging with.
I am sure Kashmiris know which side of the bread is buttered.
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dr hamidwani Says:
July 9th, 2010 at 11:24 am
there has been lot of blood shed here in the subcontient since the partation especially in the name of kashmir. the time has come to resolve this issue for sake of all the people who own the kashmir irrespective of religion. what i support is tha whole J&k which is kashmir on both sides of border ,leh/ladak & the part gifted by pakistan to china must be vaccated from the armies/security forces/police of all the occuping countries for a period of 10 yrs & shall be under control of UNO. let all migrants return to thier homeland & then after 10 yrs let there be honest refrendum as to what the people want & respect that.
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K B Kale Says:
July 9th, 2010 at 5:58 pm
Dear Dr Hamidwani,
I can say that your suggestion looks like a logical solution and I could feel your honesty and sincerity in making this suggestion, but unfortunately it is more of a dream!
Non-Muslim migrants are unlikely to return for the fear of their lives; the very reason they left in the first place. I have many close Hindu friends who have left in this way and they say they can never return unless there is peace first in the valley.
So now it is “a hen or an egg” situation.
If Kashmir is permanently split along the current LoC and if LoC is accepted as an international border and if the militancy, either orchestrated or genuine, stops, there can be no progress towards peace.
Too many ‘if’s, isn’t it?
It is unfortunate, but that is the ground reality.
dr hamidwani Says:
July 10th, 2010 at 3:45 pm
then the unwanted blood shed will continue. I feel Great Britian has to play greater role in solving this ‘humane’ ,issuse as it was created by them. we kashmiris have been suffering sine 1931. do something please !!!
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K B Kale Says:
July 10th, 2010 at 5:32 pm
The division of India on religious basis was not British idea, but it was mooted by (if I remember right) Muslim League and Muhammad Ali Jinnah (Quaid-e-Azam) was the spearhead of this movement. So why bother the Brits?
That time, only two choices were on the table for the Princely States namely: merge with India or merge with Pakistan. Rightly or wrongly, it was not left to the people of these Princely States, but the rulers of these Princely States to deciede. Raja Hari Singh decided to merge with India.
No choice of “Independent States” was available.
So Kashmiris can vote for one of these two choics if ever a plebiscite is held which stipulates some pre-conditions which will never be fulfilled. That is why I said that plebiscite is a dream, a good dream. The Chatham report suggests that Kashmiris would prefer to be in India than in Pakistan. A very prudent choice, I must add.
If Plebiscite is ever held on the basis of these choices (miracles CAN happen!), I am sure that Kashmiris will vote for merger with India. Again a very prudent choice, I must add.
Who would choose to live in Pakistan by one’s own choice?
So my recommendation stands! Divide the J&K State at LoC and live happily ever after.
I have no more to add to this dialogue now.
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Carlos Says:
July 11th, 2010 at 3:51 am
If EVER India has to give up Kashmir, it will be only the Valley not Jammu or Ladakh. That too, after sealing off borders effectively to prevent Islamic terrorists from Kashmir and Pakistan from trying to enter India.
Also, after destroying ALL infrastructure created in Kashmir with Indian money.
Muslim Kashmiris deserve Porkistan. Its their Allah given right to be become jihadis and be martryed. They don’t deserve anything better.
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K B Kale Says:
July 12th, 2010 at 7:36 pm
No, Mr Carlos, this is no way to write and drive our Kashmiri brethren away from us.
They will see the futility of armed struggle and jihads and stop it and return to our fold. But if we write like this, they will be turned off towards India.
------------------------
Pakistan's dictators
Pakistan's dictators
6th Oct. 2001
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2001/10/06/pakistan039s-dictators.html
They say that cats have nine lives. It seems that this feline privilege also applies to the Pakistani military rulers, who do appear to be a very lucky lot. Each of them seems to be presented with a lifeline just when their days seem numbered and these dictators seem to have an uncanny ability to know which side of their bread is buttered.
Ayub Khan was the luckiest compared to the other Pakistani dictators. During those heady days of the cold war, Ayub did not have to do a lot to retain his 'favorite boy' status with his allies in NATO, CENTO and SEATO. Unfortunately the American governments in general seem to have an obsession to support dictatorships in the third world. They poured in money, weapons, food and consumer goods. The rich and influential Pakistanis had a field day -- they drove the best cars, ate delicious imported delicacies and trotted the globe and tried their best to maintain the Ayub rule.
General Yahya Khan who followed had a short tenure and was finished along with East Pakistan. The next dictator, Zia-ul-Haque, came to power in relatively difficult times. The cold war had gone too cold and after Zia's execution of prime minister ZA Bhutto, things became too hot with Western democracies clamoring for a return to civilian rule.
When he seemed to be on the way out, the lady luck intervened in the form of Russians' march into Afghanistan. Americans had no choice but to prop up this unworthy dictator and extend the length of his regime. It took a despot to finish Zia when the plane he was traveling on was blown out of the sky. Unfortunately the American ambassador to Pakistan was also on board.
The next dictator, General Musharraf, who is currently ruling Pakistan, has already turned it into a pariah state. He is living on borrowed time with Pakistan's economy in shambles.
But then the lady luck seems to have intervened again. The dastardly terrorist attack of the WTC Twin Towers and the Pentagon has affected all nations. It has suddenly turned Osama bin Laden into a 'most wanted' suspect. Americans want him at any cost, thus presenting Gen. Musharraf the chance to revamp his falling fortunes by agreeing to help them in every way.
Everything in his story seems to have followed the set pattern until this point. The issue is whether the Americans have learned their lesson in the meantime. Will history repeat itself with Musharraf enjoying their generosity for a few more years? Didn't Osama bin Laden fight against the Russians on the American side in the previous war but later parted ways to become what he is today?
K.B. KALE Pune, India
6th Oct. 2001
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2001/10/06/pakistan039s-dictators.html
They say that cats have nine lives. It seems that this feline privilege also applies to the Pakistani military rulers, who do appear to be a very lucky lot. Each of them seems to be presented with a lifeline just when their days seem numbered and these dictators seem to have an uncanny ability to know which side of their bread is buttered.
Ayub Khan was the luckiest compared to the other Pakistani dictators. During those heady days of the cold war, Ayub did not have to do a lot to retain his 'favorite boy' status with his allies in NATO, CENTO and SEATO. Unfortunately the American governments in general seem to have an obsession to support dictatorships in the third world. They poured in money, weapons, food and consumer goods. The rich and influential Pakistanis had a field day -- they drove the best cars, ate delicious imported delicacies and trotted the globe and tried their best to maintain the Ayub rule.
General Yahya Khan who followed had a short tenure and was finished along with East Pakistan. The next dictator, Zia-ul-Haque, came to power in relatively difficult times. The cold war had gone too cold and after Zia's execution of prime minister ZA Bhutto, things became too hot with Western democracies clamoring for a return to civilian rule.
When he seemed to be on the way out, the lady luck intervened in the form of Russians' march into Afghanistan. Americans had no choice but to prop up this unworthy dictator and extend the length of his regime. It took a despot to finish Zia when the plane he was traveling on was blown out of the sky. Unfortunately the American ambassador to Pakistan was also on board.
The next dictator, General Musharraf, who is currently ruling Pakistan, has already turned it into a pariah state. He is living on borrowed time with Pakistan's economy in shambles.
But then the lady luck seems to have intervened again. The dastardly terrorist attack of the WTC Twin Towers and the Pentagon has affected all nations. It has suddenly turned Osama bin Laden into a 'most wanted' suspect. Americans want him at any cost, thus presenting Gen. Musharraf the chance to revamp his falling fortunes by agreeing to help them in every way.
Everything in his story seems to have followed the set pattern until this point. The issue is whether the Americans have learned their lesson in the meantime. Will history repeat itself with Musharraf enjoying their generosity for a few more years? Didn't Osama bin Laden fight against the Russians on the American side in the previous war but later parted ways to become what he is today?
K.B. KALE Pune, India
Pakistan and the U.S.
Pakistan and the U.S.
29th Oct. 2001
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2001/10/29/pakistan-and-us.html
On CNN's Larry King Live Gen. Musharraf stated that the change in environment had led to the change in his country's policy toward the Taliban. He emphasized that Pakistan's national policies had to adapt to the prevailing environment and justified the adjustment in Pakistan's policy toward the Taliban on the basis of "ground reality". After all, according to him, the environment before and after Sept. 11 was drastically different.
But Gen. Musharraf did not use the same yardstick when talking about the shift in American policy toward Pakistan. He stated that Pakistan was left in the lurch after the defeat of the former Soviet Union and that it had led to a sense of betrayal and abandonment. He further stated that one of the prime topics discussed in Pakistan was whether the U.S. would abandon Pakistan again after the anti-terrorist campaign against the Taliban and Osama bin Laden.
Had the Taliban chief, Mullah Omar, been interviewed by Larry King, he (former) would have probably expressed the same feelings.
When Gen. Musharraf changed Pakistan's policy of abandoning the Taliban on the basis of environmental changes, why did he complain about the U.S. doing the same? He should know that the current marriage between Pakistan and the U.S. is a marriage of convenience and is likely to end as soon as the Afghan war is over due to changes in "ground reality" and the "environment".
K.B. KALE, Pune, India
29th Oct. 2001
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2001/10/29/pakistan-and-us.html
On CNN's Larry King Live Gen. Musharraf stated that the change in environment had led to the change in his country's policy toward the Taliban. He emphasized that Pakistan's national policies had to adapt to the prevailing environment and justified the adjustment in Pakistan's policy toward the Taliban on the basis of "ground reality". After all, according to him, the environment before and after Sept. 11 was drastically different.
But Gen. Musharraf did not use the same yardstick when talking about the shift in American policy toward Pakistan. He stated that Pakistan was left in the lurch after the defeat of the former Soviet Union and that it had led to a sense of betrayal and abandonment. He further stated that one of the prime topics discussed in Pakistan was whether the U.S. would abandon Pakistan again after the anti-terrorist campaign against the Taliban and Osama bin Laden.
Had the Taliban chief, Mullah Omar, been interviewed by Larry King, he (former) would have probably expressed the same feelings.
When Gen. Musharraf changed Pakistan's policy of abandoning the Taliban on the basis of environmental changes, why did he complain about the U.S. doing the same? He should know that the current marriage between Pakistan and the U.S. is a marriage of convenience and is likely to end as soon as the Afghan war is over due to changes in "ground reality" and the "environment".
K.B. KALE, Pune, India
Wednesday, 15 June 2011
Let the silent majority become loud
Let the silent majority become loud
23th July, 2007
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2007/07/23/let-silent-majority-become-loud.html-0
I refer to the recent events in Pakistan. Alternately crushed by the heavy boots of the military or under pressure from the religious and a fanatical clergy, with just a few moments of sunshine of democracy, one feels sorry for the plight of the Pakistani man-on-the-street.
But recent signs are very encouraging. People are rising in loud protest against the dismissal of their chief justice and the reactions of Pakistani people to the action taken by President Musharraf on the Red Mosque (Lal Masjid) case are also very favorable.
Whenever the silent majority remains silent, those countries fall prey to military or theocratic dictatorships, as it happened a few years ago in a Middle Eastern country, where a king was replaced by a religious leader in a coup which was not necessarily with the support of the silent majority.
Let us hope that the Pakistani people do not present their country to the clergy's rule on the proverbial silver platter by remaining silent. Let us hope that the silent majority becomes vocal and resists all such attempts of the clergy and becomes a modern and democratic republic.
K.B. KALE, Jakarta
23th July, 2007
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2007/07/23/let-silent-majority-become-loud.html-0
I refer to the recent events in Pakistan. Alternately crushed by the heavy boots of the military or under pressure from the religious and a fanatical clergy, with just a few moments of sunshine of democracy, one feels sorry for the plight of the Pakistani man-on-the-street.
But recent signs are very encouraging. People are rising in loud protest against the dismissal of their chief justice and the reactions of Pakistani people to the action taken by President Musharraf on the Red Mosque (Lal Masjid) case are also very favorable.
Whenever the silent majority remains silent, those countries fall prey to military or theocratic dictatorships, as it happened a few years ago in a Middle Eastern country, where a king was replaced by a religious leader in a coup which was not necessarily with the support of the silent majority.
Let us hope that the Pakistani people do not present their country to the clergy's rule on the proverbial silver platter by remaining silent. Let us hope that the silent majority becomes vocal and resists all such attempts of the clergy and becomes a modern and democratic republic.
K.B. KALE, Jakarta
Pakistan election
Pakistan election
29th Feb. 2008
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2008/02/28/pakistan-election.html
Pakistani people should be whole-heartedly congratulated for their courage in going to the polling stations under relatively tense conditions and their maturity in casting their ballots fearlessly to choose candidates (and political parties) of their choice through a democratic process. The fact that 45 percent people voted is in itself a major achievement indeed.
The Pakistani people have also shown the PML-Q, fundamentalist and religious parties their place. This is a positive outcome of the election.
The results of the elections bring out clearly that the elections were free and fair and President Musharraf, though he was mauled badly in the election, deserves kudos for the same.
The next logical steps would be for the new government to reinstate the chief justice and all the deposed judges, who then should hear the case of eligibility (or otherwise) of the election of Musharraf as president.
Musharraf engineered his election by a back-door entry to the presidency by getting elected not by the newly elected representatives, but by erstwhile representatives who would cease to exist as representatives the moment the newly elected members were sworn in.
His election is null and void and it would be appropriate if he resigns gracefully. If he does not, he should be forced to resign.
So it is time to say good-bye to President Musharraf!
The most illogical (and unfortunate) step would be Zardari and Nawaz Sharif failing to keep out personal egos and agendas and failing to join hands to hammer out a compromise to build a workable coalition. They can look at India where coalition governments are more of a rule than an exception.
Musharraf, who is a wily politician, would do anything to join hands with either of them to remain in power, but doing so would be contrary to the people's mandate. So Sharif and Zardari must make all-out efforts to form a coalition government.
The key question in everyone's mind would be: Will the new government of Pakistan that replaces Musharraf's be any more successful in bringing long-term peace to the Indian sub-continent and rein in the wayward terrorism in that country?
K.B. KALE, Jakarta
29th Feb. 2008
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2008/02/28/pakistan-election.html
Pakistani people should be whole-heartedly congratulated for their courage in going to the polling stations under relatively tense conditions and their maturity in casting their ballots fearlessly to choose candidates (and political parties) of their choice through a democratic process. The fact that 45 percent people voted is in itself a major achievement indeed.
The Pakistani people have also shown the PML-Q, fundamentalist and religious parties their place. This is a positive outcome of the election.
The results of the elections bring out clearly that the elections were free and fair and President Musharraf, though he was mauled badly in the election, deserves kudos for the same.
The next logical steps would be for the new government to reinstate the chief justice and all the deposed judges, who then should hear the case of eligibility (or otherwise) of the election of Musharraf as president.
Musharraf engineered his election by a back-door entry to the presidency by getting elected not by the newly elected representatives, but by erstwhile representatives who would cease to exist as representatives the moment the newly elected members were sworn in.
His election is null and void and it would be appropriate if he resigns gracefully. If he does not, he should be forced to resign.
So it is time to say good-bye to President Musharraf!
The most illogical (and unfortunate) step would be Zardari and Nawaz Sharif failing to keep out personal egos and agendas and failing to join hands to hammer out a compromise to build a workable coalition. They can look at India where coalition governments are more of a rule than an exception.
Musharraf, who is a wily politician, would do anything to join hands with either of them to remain in power, but doing so would be contrary to the people's mandate. So Sharif and Zardari must make all-out efforts to form a coalition government.
The key question in everyone's mind would be: Will the new government of Pakistan that replaces Musharraf's be any more successful in bringing long-term peace to the Indian sub-continent and rein in the wayward terrorism in that country?
K.B. KALE, Jakarta
India-Pakistan ties after Mumbai tragedy
India-Pakistan ties after Mumbai tragedy
16th Dec. 2008
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2008/12/16/letter-indiapakistan-ties-after-mumbai-tragedy.html
As a consequence of the Mumbai massacre, the relationship between India and Pakistan has now come under the microscope.
With his own wife having been killed by terrorists and looking at other acts of terrorism viz. the explosion of bombs at the Marriott Hotel in Islamabad (where he was scheduled to have dined that evening), Asif Ali Zardari's statement that the Pakistani government did not promote the Mumbai Massacre can be believed.
But the same thing can't be said of Pakistan's armed forces or its intelligence apparatus which does have rogue elements. Pakistan's military governments or civil governments have not yet been able to control these elements.
They have not been able to eliminate terrorist attacks on their own soil by their own people! How can one forget Nawaz Sharif's helplessness when he admitted he didn't know anything about the Kargil misadventure!
If Pakistan wants to have a lasting friendship with India, it must take concrete "confidence building measures," starting with the extradition of 20-odd terrorists/criminals as demanded by the Indian government. These terrorists/criminals have indulged in terroristic and criminal activities in India and India has the right to interrogate them and punish them if found guilty.
Until such steps are taken by Pakistan -- to show its genuine desire for good neighborly relations with India -- the Indian government should close down all links, road, rail and air, and withdraw easy visa provisions for Pakistani nationals.
Unless Pakistan shows a genuine change in attitude towards fighting terrorism, India should not accept Pakistan's sweet talk and stop considering it as a friendly neighbor.
Pakistan has managed to survive on money doled out to it by America under one pretext or another. While Pakistan in this condition is a nuisance to India, India will prosper all the same because it has learned to survive the hard way.
But what will Pakistan gain from such enmity?
It is high time Pakistan found out which side of the bread is buttered and made an honorable friendship with India.
K.B. KALE, Jakarta
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Post Comments | Comments (2)
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kbkale, | Wed, 22/04/2009
Dear Mr Vaidya, Are you in Indonesia or in India? If in Indonesia, pl call me on my office direct line 021-4606238 after 14th May. If in India, pl let me know your contact number on kbkale@yahoo.com
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Vikas Vaidya, | Tue, 06/01/2009 - 20:01pm
I agree with the observations made by Mr. Kale. But it will be too innocent on the part of India to assume that Pakistan will start behaving like a good boy just because India has strong evidences for its involvement in Mumbai attacks. It is the world community which has to take strong view as sooner or later this terrorism will enter their house as well. In fact whether the country is islamic or non-islamic,the threat of terrorism is same for all. It may be little easier for extremists to enter Islamic countries under the cover of religion.Progressive Islamic countries like Indonesia can play a huge role in tiding over this menace. The question is not the safety of India alone but the whole world as the US intelligence has predicted, the terrorists from Pakistan will have access to Nuclear weapons by 2013, if allowed to go unchecked.Government in Pakistan is almost non-existent. It is the Army and the ISI WHO are calling the shots.
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16th Dec. 2008
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2008/12/16/letter-indiapakistan-ties-after-mumbai-tragedy.html
As a consequence of the Mumbai massacre, the relationship between India and Pakistan has now come under the microscope.
With his own wife having been killed by terrorists and looking at other acts of terrorism viz. the explosion of bombs at the Marriott Hotel in Islamabad (where he was scheduled to have dined that evening), Asif Ali Zardari's statement that the Pakistani government did not promote the Mumbai Massacre can be believed.
But the same thing can't be said of Pakistan's armed forces or its intelligence apparatus which does have rogue elements. Pakistan's military governments or civil governments have not yet been able to control these elements.
They have not been able to eliminate terrorist attacks on their own soil by their own people! How can one forget Nawaz Sharif's helplessness when he admitted he didn't know anything about the Kargil misadventure!
If Pakistan wants to have a lasting friendship with India, it must take concrete "confidence building measures," starting with the extradition of 20-odd terrorists/criminals as demanded by the Indian government. These terrorists/criminals have indulged in terroristic and criminal activities in India and India has the right to interrogate them and punish them if found guilty.
Until such steps are taken by Pakistan -- to show its genuine desire for good neighborly relations with India -- the Indian government should close down all links, road, rail and air, and withdraw easy visa provisions for Pakistani nationals.
Unless Pakistan shows a genuine change in attitude towards fighting terrorism, India should not accept Pakistan's sweet talk and stop considering it as a friendly neighbor.
Pakistan has managed to survive on money doled out to it by America under one pretext or another. While Pakistan in this condition is a nuisance to India, India will prosper all the same because it has learned to survive the hard way.
But what will Pakistan gain from such enmity?
It is high time Pakistan found out which side of the bread is buttered and made an honorable friendship with India.
K.B. KALE, Jakarta
===========================================
Post Comments | Comments (2)
===========================================
kbkale, | Wed, 22/04/2009
Dear Mr Vaidya, Are you in Indonesia or in India? If in Indonesia, pl call me on my office direct line 021-4606238 after 14th May. If in India, pl let me know your contact number on kbkale@yahoo.com
===========================================
Vikas Vaidya, | Tue, 06/01/2009 - 20:01pm
I agree with the observations made by Mr. Kale. But it will be too innocent on the part of India to assume that Pakistan will start behaving like a good boy just because India has strong evidences for its involvement in Mumbai attacks. It is the world community which has to take strong view as sooner or later this terrorism will enter their house as well. In fact whether the country is islamic or non-islamic,the threat of terrorism is same for all. It may be little easier for extremists to enter Islamic countries under the cover of religion.Progressive Islamic countries like Indonesia can play a huge role in tiding over this menace. The question is not the safety of India alone but the whole world as the US intelligence has predicted, the terrorists from Pakistan will have access to Nuclear weapons by 2013, if allowed to go unchecked.Government in Pakistan is almost non-existent. It is the Army and the ISI WHO are calling the shots.
===========================================
Vacuum in White House
Vacuum in White House
| Mon, 12/22/2008
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2008/12/22/letter-vacuum-white-house.html
I have always wondered why the U.S. president elect in the world's most powerful democracy must wait nearly 75 days before taking over as president.
Elected on the first Tuesday of November every 4 years, the president elect is made to wait until Jan. 20 -- a period where the United States goes virtually without a leader.
Conversely, the prime minister of the world's most populous democracy (India) must take over immediately on being elected by the MPs!
My U.S. friends told me this practice is a 200-year-old tradition since the counting of votes -- both popular and electoral -- used to be carried on horseback from the 13 far-flung original states to Washington D.C..
In fact, until recently, the president elect would not take over until March, not January!
Why should this practice continue now that electronic voting can announce the new president by late evening the same day as the polls?
Even in very close elections like the Bush vs. Gore, Nixon vs. Humphrey, or JFK vs. Nixon, the moment the counting concludes and a winner is declared, he should take over immediately.
With 75 days available, Parkinson's First Law (work expands so as to fill the time available for its completion) applies, and the process of the formation of the cabinet rolls on and on!
The stark need of a newly empowered leader to take over immediately was never felt more than now when there is a vast national need for reassurance. The president himself was a cipher to quote Joe Klein of TIME in its 8th December issue!
The expectations of president-elect Barack Obama rose steeply due to the current serious financial meltdown. When Americans (and people in other nations) looked to him for deliverance, he had to declare, "there is only one President of the United States until January 20, 2009, and he is President Bush."
With Bush becoming the lamest-duck-president and Obama yet to be sworn in, the United States is facing a serious leadership vacuum.
The United States will hopefully make a necessary constitutional amendment in this regard.
K.B. KALE, Jakarta
| Mon, 12/22/2008
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2008/12/22/letter-vacuum-white-house.html
I have always wondered why the U.S. president elect in the world's most powerful democracy must wait nearly 75 days before taking over as president.
Elected on the first Tuesday of November every 4 years, the president elect is made to wait until Jan. 20 -- a period where the United States goes virtually without a leader.
Conversely, the prime minister of the world's most populous democracy (India) must take over immediately on being elected by the MPs!
My U.S. friends told me this practice is a 200-year-old tradition since the counting of votes -- both popular and electoral -- used to be carried on horseback from the 13 far-flung original states to Washington D.C..
In fact, until recently, the president elect would not take over until March, not January!
Why should this practice continue now that electronic voting can announce the new president by late evening the same day as the polls?
Even in very close elections like the Bush vs. Gore, Nixon vs. Humphrey, or JFK vs. Nixon, the moment the counting concludes and a winner is declared, he should take over immediately.
With 75 days available, Parkinson's First Law (work expands so as to fill the time available for its completion) applies, and the process of the formation of the cabinet rolls on and on!
The stark need of a newly empowered leader to take over immediately was never felt more than now when there is a vast national need for reassurance. The president himself was a cipher to quote Joe Klein of TIME in its 8th December issue!
The expectations of president-elect Barack Obama rose steeply due to the current serious financial meltdown. When Americans (and people in other nations) looked to him for deliverance, he had to declare, "there is only one President of the United States until January 20, 2009, and he is President Bush."
With Bush becoming the lamest-duck-president and Obama yet to be sworn in, the United States is facing a serious leadership vacuum.
The United States will hopefully make a necessary constitutional amendment in this regard.
K.B. KALE, Jakarta
Tuesday, 14 June 2011
Kashmir, again?
Kashmir, again?
The Jakarta Post 23rd August 2010
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2010/08/23/letter-kashmir-again.html
This refers to the article by Laura Schuurmans (The Jakarta Post, Aug. 12, p. 7). I wonder if she is in sync with the reality in Kashmir.
The subject of Kashmir routinely pops up in the Post and is discussed overenthusiastically by the Jakarta expat community ad infinatum/ad nauseum, and there is generally nothing new to add on either side!
So let me borrow from a study by London’s Kings College scholar Robert Bradrock, (Kashmir: Paths to Peace Opinion Poll, http://tinyurl.com/2bsxhkc). It involved interviews of 3,774 people in both parts of Kashmir during September/October 2009 for Chatham House, home of the Royal Institute of International Affairs and a world-leading institute for the debate and analysis of international issues. Its conclusions surprised me!
I quote from this 39-page report regarding conclusions on page 35.
“Despite the complexity, some conclusions are clear. 81% say unemployment is the most significant problem facing Kashmiris [66% in PoK*, 87% in J&K]. Government corruption [22% PoK* and 68% J&K], poor economic development [42% PoK*, 45% J&K], human rights abuses [19% PoK*, 43% J&K] and the Kashmir conflict itself [24% PoK*, 36% J&K] are all seen as major problems. 80% of Kashmiris say that the dispute is very important to them personally.
The two questions envisaged under the UN resolutions of 1948/1949, which proposed a plebiscite, were restricted to the choice of the whole of the former princely state of Jammu and Kashmir joining India or joining Pakistan. This poll shows that preference for those options is highly polarized. 21% of the population said they would vote for the whole of Kashmir to join India, and 15% said they would vote for it to join Pakistan. Furthermore, only 1% of the population in PoK* say they would vote to join India, while only 2% of the population in J&K say they would vote to join Pakistan. There is further polarization between the districts.
The option of independence has been widely promoted on both sides of the LoC over the last twenty years. However, although 43% of the total population said they would vote for independence, in only five out of eighteen districts was there a majority preference for the independence of the whole of Kashmir.” (The original report refers to PoK as AJK!)
These results support the already widespread view that the plebiscite options are likely to offer no solution to the dispute.
One very important aspect of the UN resolutions which calls for a plebiscite in J&K and neither stressed by Pakistan nor highlighted by India is that the same resolution calls for a complete withdrawal of Pakistani troops from PoK as a mandatory pre-condition for holding plebiscite in J&K, thereby implying that Pakistan was the aggressor. (http://tinyurl.com/32ua68b or www.kashmir-information.com/historicaldocuments/112.html)
However, holding the plebiscite has been rendered further difficult due to eviction under duress of the Hindu population from the valley. This eviction under duress scattered Hindus all over India and the world, thus expunging their availability to vote in a plebiscite, if and when it is held.
But, the UN resolution of 1948/1949 has been superseded by the Shimla Agreement signed in July 1972 by the late Z.A. Bhutto (then president of Pakistan) and the late Indira Gandhi (then PM of India).
So it has only academic value now.
K.B. Kale, Jakarta
===========================================
Post Comments | Comments (2)
K B Kale, Jakarta (currently) | Sat, 28/08/2010 - 12:08pm
Dear Mr Mohammed Jalaluddin,
Thank you so much! If you had not drawn my attention to your comment, I would have missed it! You literally made my day!!
Needless to say I am very happy to read your comments. For us in Maharashtra where I come from, Kashmir is a far-off place and we look at it as a matter of national honour, a place where Pakistan is playing its dirty tricks and (most important) a place more beautiful than heaven itself. Though I am not fortunate enough to have visited it so far, we have seen its beauty in hundreds of Bollywood Hindi movies.
I enclose herewith for your study some links as follows:
(1) http://tinyurl.com/2crgfrj (Read both 'article' and 'comments')
(2) http://tinyurl.com/28457tv (Musharraf admitting that terrorism in India was Pakistani creation)
(3) http://tinyurl.com/2cgmln6 & http://tinyurl.com/2veepwg (Sushma Swaraj's dialogue with Kashmiri students)
(4) I am very happy with Star Plus (do you watch their "Chhote Ustad?) who have invited Pakistani children and their parents to Mumbai and Sonu Nigam (India) and Ustad Rahat Fateh Ali Khan(Pakistan) preside as "experts'! I think it is a very well-thought idea because if Pakistani kids of 8-10 years of age realise how they are liked and loved in India and their parents also see this warmth, the effect of deliberate misleading information from Pakistani government will be nullified.
I also request you to read the full 39-page report referred to by me.
If I ever come to J&K, I would love to meet you and your friends.
Please let me know your e-mail ID so that I can keep in touch.
Jai Hind!
===========================================
Mohammed Jalaluddin, Jammu, India | Thu, 26/08/2010 - 12:08pm
Please read my comments to Laura S's article of August 12.
flag
(I give below the comments of Mr Mohammed Jalaluddin of Jammu & Syed Ahmed of Mumbai)
Mohammed Jalaluddin, Jammu, India | Thu, 26/08/2010 - 10:08am
First of all, it is clear that the author Laura S is just pretending to be knowledgeable about events and history in South Asia. But unfortunately, her knowledge about the subcontinent is absolutely shallow. She probably is on the paroll of ISI, and Jakarta Post should be careful in publishing articles from her, as inadvertently it should not give encouragement to Taliban mentality and jehadism. Dawood Gilani, the top LET terrorist apprehended by FBI in the USA has given a lot of confessions in which he has informed that ISI and LET (and Al Quaida) are inseparable, as you see the same people at both the places, when you visit the ISI office or visit a Taliban training camp! He also informed the interrogators that the LET was given 25000 USD by the ISI to buy a boat to sail the Mumbai terrorists from Pakistan to India, which killed 175 people including dozens of innocent Muslims at a Mumbai railway station and other places in 2008. He also informed that these terrorists were given marine commando training at Pakistan Navy training facilities by the ISI. Recent revelations about ISI hand in troubles in Afghanistan and other places in leaked CIA soca should also be taken into consideration. It is known fact that Osama is very much in the safe custody of ISI all the time since he fled Kabul. Jakarta Post should be careful about publishing articles by Jehadi activists supporters like the author Laura S.
===========================================
Mohammed Jalaluddin, Jammu, India | Thu, 26/08/2010 - 10:08am
Pakistan hasn't been given a contract by the world's Muslims to represent them, nor should it assume that it is the sole Representative of the Muslim voice. The nuclear weapons it has got (from stolen technology from West and gifted by China) does not give it a right to talk on behalf of all Muslims of the world, and certainly not on behalf of Muslims of India. We Muslims of India are WAY better than the terribly suffering Muslims of Pakistan, where Muslims are killed like ants in Mosques and roads by suicide bombers and jehadists. Today Pakistan has become an epicenter of terrorism and the only contribution it is making now to the world is terrorism. Pakistan because of it's obsession with my State of J & K, has relentlessly encouraged jehad as an instrument of state policy against India, Afghanistan and Shia Iran. Pakistan's such policies are solely responsible for the tarnished image of The great religion of Islam in the world. Because of Pakistanis, Muslims world over are looked at with suspicion. It should stop meddling in J & K. We Kashmiris will never join Pakistan, as were better off where we are now. In India we are safe, we are not bombed by Taliban while praying, we get all the benefits of economic progress of India, our religious rights are protected by the constitution. We elect our own government (whereas, during most of it's history, Pakistan was ruled by military tyrants). There is absolutely no discrimination against Muslims. There were two Muslim Presidents in India, the current Vice-president of India is a Muslim, there were Muslims who captained Indian cricket teams, one of the top three IT companies' owner is a Muslim, who is one of the richest persons of India, top artists and film-stars are Muslims, Indian Airforce chief was a Muslim, Muslims were Supreme Court judges, thus Muslims are equal partners in every aspect. Therefore, Pakistan, you stop meddling in our country...your country will be the last country on earth that we will join if ever we decide to secede from India.
===========================================
Syed Ahmed, Mumbai, india | Thu, 26/08/2010 - 11:08am
I fully agree with Md Jalaluddin for both of his comments. Laura Schuurmans is highly biased in her views and there is a definite hidden agenda in her article. Pakistani secret service agency ISI has many Agents like her whose only job is to spread disinformation and distort the facts to highlight the Kashmir issue and try to draw the attention of the world for it's cause. Also, Pakistani Military officers are dreaming about bombing And annihilating India with it's Islamic atom bombs. In the process it is forgetting that the Islamic bomb will not spare Muslims like me and they forget that India is home to the second largest Muslim population in the world after Indonesia. Mumbai alone has two million Muslims, which Pakistanis have no qualms in annihilating. And they claim they are custodians of Muslim causes world over. What you sow is what you reap. Hatred begets hatred. It is the sins that the Pakistanis that have committed during the last six decades, which has resulted in suicide bombings, death, destruction, economic bankruptcy, social decay, fratricidal wars in Muslims killing Muslims. Pakistanis today can not survive without alms from other countries and their leaders visit every other Country with a begging bowl. Whereas Muslims in India are going from strength to strength, enjoying fruits of the economic success of the rising economic super power! And Pakistan today suffers from floods, eArthquakes, disasters after disasters...all are curses of Allah for their sins. Pakistan has no future...will break into smaller states, will be taken by the Taliban into the stone age and could get destroyed because of jehadi misadventures. I don't think any sane Kashmiri Muslim would like to join Pakistan!
===========================================
The Jakarta Post 23rd August 2010
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2010/08/23/letter-kashmir-again.html
This refers to the article by Laura Schuurmans (The Jakarta Post, Aug. 12, p. 7). I wonder if she is in sync with the reality in Kashmir.
The subject of Kashmir routinely pops up in the Post and is discussed overenthusiastically by the Jakarta expat community ad infinatum/ad nauseum, and there is generally nothing new to add on either side!
So let me borrow from a study by London’s Kings College scholar Robert Bradrock, (Kashmir: Paths to Peace Opinion Poll, http://tinyurl.com/2bsxhkc). It involved interviews of 3,774 people in both parts of Kashmir during September/October 2009 for Chatham House, home of the Royal Institute of International Affairs and a world-leading institute for the debate and analysis of international issues. Its conclusions surprised me!
I quote from this 39-page report regarding conclusions on page 35.
“Despite the complexity, some conclusions are clear. 81% say unemployment is the most significant problem facing Kashmiris [66% in PoK*, 87% in J&K]. Government corruption [22% PoK* and 68% J&K], poor economic development [42% PoK*, 45% J&K], human rights abuses [19% PoK*, 43% J&K] and the Kashmir conflict itself [24% PoK*, 36% J&K] are all seen as major problems. 80% of Kashmiris say that the dispute is very important to them personally.
The two questions envisaged under the UN resolutions of 1948/1949, which proposed a plebiscite, were restricted to the choice of the whole of the former princely state of Jammu and Kashmir joining India or joining Pakistan. This poll shows that preference for those options is highly polarized. 21% of the population said they would vote for the whole of Kashmir to join India, and 15% said they would vote for it to join Pakistan. Furthermore, only 1% of the population in PoK* say they would vote to join India, while only 2% of the population in J&K say they would vote to join Pakistan. There is further polarization between the districts.
The option of independence has been widely promoted on both sides of the LoC over the last twenty years. However, although 43% of the total population said they would vote for independence, in only five out of eighteen districts was there a majority preference for the independence of the whole of Kashmir.” (The original report refers to PoK as AJK!)
These results support the already widespread view that the plebiscite options are likely to offer no solution to the dispute.
One very important aspect of the UN resolutions which calls for a plebiscite in J&K and neither stressed by Pakistan nor highlighted by India is that the same resolution calls for a complete withdrawal of Pakistani troops from PoK as a mandatory pre-condition for holding plebiscite in J&K, thereby implying that Pakistan was the aggressor. (http://tinyurl.com/32ua68b or www.kashmir-information.com/historicaldocuments/112.html)
However, holding the plebiscite has been rendered further difficult due to eviction under duress of the Hindu population from the valley. This eviction under duress scattered Hindus all over India and the world, thus expunging their availability to vote in a plebiscite, if and when it is held.
But, the UN resolution of 1948/1949 has been superseded by the Shimla Agreement signed in July 1972 by the late Z.A. Bhutto (then president of Pakistan) and the late Indira Gandhi (then PM of India).
So it has only academic value now.
K.B. Kale, Jakarta
===========================================
Post Comments | Comments (2)
K B Kale, Jakarta (currently) | Sat, 28/08/2010 - 12:08pm
Dear Mr Mohammed Jalaluddin,
Thank you so much! If you had not drawn my attention to your comment, I would have missed it! You literally made my day!!
Needless to say I am very happy to read your comments. For us in Maharashtra where I come from, Kashmir is a far-off place and we look at it as a matter of national honour, a place where Pakistan is playing its dirty tricks and (most important) a place more beautiful than heaven itself. Though I am not fortunate enough to have visited it so far, we have seen its beauty in hundreds of Bollywood Hindi movies.
I enclose herewith for your study some links as follows:
(1) http://tinyurl.com/2crgfrj (Read both 'article' and 'comments')
(2) http://tinyurl.com/28457tv (Musharraf admitting that terrorism in India was Pakistani creation)
(3) http://tinyurl.com/2cgmln6 & http://tinyurl.com/2veepwg (Sushma Swaraj's dialogue with Kashmiri students)
(4) I am very happy with Star Plus (do you watch their "Chhote Ustad?) who have invited Pakistani children and their parents to Mumbai and Sonu Nigam (India) and Ustad Rahat Fateh Ali Khan(Pakistan) preside as "experts'! I think it is a very well-thought idea because if Pakistani kids of 8-10 years of age realise how they are liked and loved in India and their parents also see this warmth, the effect of deliberate misleading information from Pakistani government will be nullified.
I also request you to read the full 39-page report referred to by me.
If I ever come to J&K, I would love to meet you and your friends.
Please let me know your e-mail ID so that I can keep in touch.
Jai Hind!
===========================================
Mohammed Jalaluddin, Jammu, India | Thu, 26/08/2010 - 12:08pm
Please read my comments to Laura S's article of August 12.
flag
(I give below the comments of Mr Mohammed Jalaluddin of Jammu & Syed Ahmed of Mumbai)
Mohammed Jalaluddin, Jammu, India | Thu, 26/08/2010 - 10:08am
First of all, it is clear that the author Laura S is just pretending to be knowledgeable about events and history in South Asia. But unfortunately, her knowledge about the subcontinent is absolutely shallow. She probably is on the paroll of ISI, and Jakarta Post should be careful in publishing articles from her, as inadvertently it should not give encouragement to Taliban mentality and jehadism. Dawood Gilani, the top LET terrorist apprehended by FBI in the USA has given a lot of confessions in which he has informed that ISI and LET (and Al Quaida) are inseparable, as you see the same people at both the places, when you visit the ISI office or visit a Taliban training camp! He also informed the interrogators that the LET was given 25000 USD by the ISI to buy a boat to sail the Mumbai terrorists from Pakistan to India, which killed 175 people including dozens of innocent Muslims at a Mumbai railway station and other places in 2008. He also informed that these terrorists were given marine commando training at Pakistan Navy training facilities by the ISI. Recent revelations about ISI hand in troubles in Afghanistan and other places in leaked CIA soca should also be taken into consideration. It is known fact that Osama is very much in the safe custody of ISI all the time since he fled Kabul. Jakarta Post should be careful about publishing articles by Jehadi activists supporters like the author Laura S.
===========================================
Mohammed Jalaluddin, Jammu, India | Thu, 26/08/2010 - 10:08am
Pakistan hasn't been given a contract by the world's Muslims to represent them, nor should it assume that it is the sole Representative of the Muslim voice. The nuclear weapons it has got (from stolen technology from West and gifted by China) does not give it a right to talk on behalf of all Muslims of the world, and certainly not on behalf of Muslims of India. We Muslims of India are WAY better than the terribly suffering Muslims of Pakistan, where Muslims are killed like ants in Mosques and roads by suicide bombers and jehadists. Today Pakistan has become an epicenter of terrorism and the only contribution it is making now to the world is terrorism. Pakistan because of it's obsession with my State of J & K, has relentlessly encouraged jehad as an instrument of state policy against India, Afghanistan and Shia Iran. Pakistan's such policies are solely responsible for the tarnished image of The great religion of Islam in the world. Because of Pakistanis, Muslims world over are looked at with suspicion. It should stop meddling in J & K. We Kashmiris will never join Pakistan, as were better off where we are now. In India we are safe, we are not bombed by Taliban while praying, we get all the benefits of economic progress of India, our religious rights are protected by the constitution. We elect our own government (whereas, during most of it's history, Pakistan was ruled by military tyrants). There is absolutely no discrimination against Muslims. There were two Muslim Presidents in India, the current Vice-president of India is a Muslim, there were Muslims who captained Indian cricket teams, one of the top three IT companies' owner is a Muslim, who is one of the richest persons of India, top artists and film-stars are Muslims, Indian Airforce chief was a Muslim, Muslims were Supreme Court judges, thus Muslims are equal partners in every aspect. Therefore, Pakistan, you stop meddling in our country...your country will be the last country on earth that we will join if ever we decide to secede from India.
===========================================
Syed Ahmed, Mumbai, india | Thu, 26/08/2010 - 11:08am
I fully agree with Md Jalaluddin for both of his comments. Laura Schuurmans is highly biased in her views and there is a definite hidden agenda in her article. Pakistani secret service agency ISI has many Agents like her whose only job is to spread disinformation and distort the facts to highlight the Kashmir issue and try to draw the attention of the world for it's cause. Also, Pakistani Military officers are dreaming about bombing And annihilating India with it's Islamic atom bombs. In the process it is forgetting that the Islamic bomb will not spare Muslims like me and they forget that India is home to the second largest Muslim population in the world after Indonesia. Mumbai alone has two million Muslims, which Pakistanis have no qualms in annihilating. And they claim they are custodians of Muslim causes world over. What you sow is what you reap. Hatred begets hatred. It is the sins that the Pakistanis that have committed during the last six decades, which has resulted in suicide bombings, death, destruction, economic bankruptcy, social decay, fratricidal wars in Muslims killing Muslims. Pakistanis today can not survive without alms from other countries and their leaders visit every other Country with a begging bowl. Whereas Muslims in India are going from strength to strength, enjoying fruits of the economic success of the rising economic super power! And Pakistan today suffers from floods, eArthquakes, disasters after disasters...all are curses of Allah for their sins. Pakistan has no future...will break into smaller states, will be taken by the Taliban into the stone age and could get destroyed because of jehadi misadventures. I don't think any sane Kashmiri Muslim would like to join Pakistan!
===========================================
Mumbai attack is a big question
Mumbai attack is a big question
4th December 2010
(This is a response from Mr Farhan Qutab to my lettter of 26th Nov. 2010)
K. B. Kale’s letter on Nov. 26 reminds us of the tragedy that befell Mumbai a couple of years ago.
Whatever we have heard from both sides, i.e. Pakistan and India, it is believed that non-state actors were involved in the incident. Whoever was responsible for the attack and whatever the underlying truth, the fact remains that it was a thoroughly condemnable act.
But Kale has missed out on the most interesting part of the whole episode. Remember when senior congress leaders were all engaged in taunting Pakistan for the Nov. 26 attacks, Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Singh Modi, a staunch supporter of Hindu nationalism, hinted at an internal hand in the terror strikes.
“If we single out that one incident [of the Mumbai attacks] and ask any person in this country, even with basic information and knowledge they will say that such a big terror attack on India cannot take place without any internal help from the nation itself.”
This is what Modi told a national meeting of the main opposition Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) in Nagpur in early 2009. This was nothing short of bursting the bubble of conviction among the top Indian leaders that the attacks were orchestrated from abroad.
Were those elements “from the nation itself” ever brought to book, well never! Why, nobody knows. It may be that it would have shifted the blame from Pakistan and placed much of the onus on India in sorting out the matter.
The abolition of Anti Terrorist Squad (ATS) senior officer Hemant Karkare and two of his colleagues in the Mumbai attacks is also a big question mark. The ATS had interrogated the infamous Col Purohit who had confessed to bombing the Samjhota express, something the Indian government had earlier contributed to Pakistan’s premiere intelligence agency. Reportedly the ones who shot Karkare and his aides were speaking fluent Marathi, just a co-incidence perhaps.
India is no doubt a great democratic nation, the people there unlike any other in the world have the courage to ask questions about their own government and leaders. The people must have asked: Who was the internal hand in the conspiracy behind the Mumbai attack; how come Karkare was the first one to die in the Mumbai attacks?
It is democracy in India that has allowed a person like Arundhati Roy to make utterances such as that Kashmir has “never been an integral part of India” and that India should get out of Kashmir. But questions are 50 percent of democracy, answers make up the other half, so the answers should also see the light of the day. The Mumbai attacks is a big question, Pakistan is not the answer, the answer lies within India.
Farhan Qutab, Islamabad
=======================================
Post Comments | Comments (1)
K B Kale, Jakarta | Thu, 16/12/2010 - 12:12pm
At the outset I thank Mr Farhan Qutab for showing his sympathy for the innocents in Mumbai who lost their lives. I am also thankful to him for not raking up Darbar Sahib Issue. Perhaps somebody reminded him of a similar event back home? But we Indians never discuss such issues which are painful to remember.
I am also thankful to Mr Farhan Qutab for writing this as a ‘solo’ letter because earlier he often wrote such letters jointly with Mr Faraz Liaquat, sometime from Jakarta and sometimes from Islamabad. I don’t know who provided ideas and who wrote them down! Or who wrote the first half and who wrote the concluding part!! I have often wondered whether these were written by neither of them but somebody else!
Coming to Mr Narendra Modi’s statement, Mr Modi was referring to our own Faisal Shahzads. The Indians who helped this terrorists’ gang from Pakistan were 'Faisal Shahzad's of India! The very people in Pakistan who can recruit gullible youths to become suicide bombers that are currently playing havoc in Pakistan can unfortunately recruit similar gullible, misguided youths in India too. So there is no element of surprise there. Unfortunately, we do have these Faisals in our country and these 0.1% Faisals spoil the good names of rest of the 99.9% of their own brethren.
Kasab sang like a proverbial canary and admitted every charge leveled against him, but with the help of a lawyer provided by India, he changed his plea. Our lower court tried Kasab and found him guilty. He was given the capital punishment. Our judicial system is fair. So I believe that he must have been found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
But as he was given capital punishment, as per our law, it has to be confirmed by the High Court. So his case is being tried there and is presently sub-judice. Bombay High Court will examine all issues including the question of who shot Late Mr. Karkare! So I prefer to wait till the verdict of the Bombay High Court is out.
=======================================
4th December 2010
(This is a response from Mr Farhan Qutab to my lettter of 26th Nov. 2010)
K. B. Kale’s letter on Nov. 26 reminds us of the tragedy that befell Mumbai a couple of years ago.
Whatever we have heard from both sides, i.e. Pakistan and India, it is believed that non-state actors were involved in the incident. Whoever was responsible for the attack and whatever the underlying truth, the fact remains that it was a thoroughly condemnable act.
But Kale has missed out on the most interesting part of the whole episode. Remember when senior congress leaders were all engaged in taunting Pakistan for the Nov. 26 attacks, Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Singh Modi, a staunch supporter of Hindu nationalism, hinted at an internal hand in the terror strikes.
“If we single out that one incident [of the Mumbai attacks] and ask any person in this country, even with basic information and knowledge they will say that such a big terror attack on India cannot take place without any internal help from the nation itself.”
This is what Modi told a national meeting of the main opposition Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) in Nagpur in early 2009. This was nothing short of bursting the bubble of conviction among the top Indian leaders that the attacks were orchestrated from abroad.
Were those elements “from the nation itself” ever brought to book, well never! Why, nobody knows. It may be that it would have shifted the blame from Pakistan and placed much of the onus on India in sorting out the matter.
The abolition of Anti Terrorist Squad (ATS) senior officer Hemant Karkare and two of his colleagues in the Mumbai attacks is also a big question mark. The ATS had interrogated the infamous Col Purohit who had confessed to bombing the Samjhota express, something the Indian government had earlier contributed to Pakistan’s premiere intelligence agency. Reportedly the ones who shot Karkare and his aides were speaking fluent Marathi, just a co-incidence perhaps.
India is no doubt a great democratic nation, the people there unlike any other in the world have the courage to ask questions about their own government and leaders. The people must have asked: Who was the internal hand in the conspiracy behind the Mumbai attack; how come Karkare was the first one to die in the Mumbai attacks?
It is democracy in India that has allowed a person like Arundhati Roy to make utterances such as that Kashmir has “never been an integral part of India” and that India should get out of Kashmir. But questions are 50 percent of democracy, answers make up the other half, so the answers should also see the light of the day. The Mumbai attacks is a big question, Pakistan is not the answer, the answer lies within India.
Farhan Qutab, Islamabad
=======================================
Post Comments | Comments (1)
K B Kale, Jakarta | Thu, 16/12/2010 - 12:12pm
At the outset I thank Mr Farhan Qutab for showing his sympathy for the innocents in Mumbai who lost their lives. I am also thankful to him for not raking up Darbar Sahib Issue. Perhaps somebody reminded him of a similar event back home? But we Indians never discuss such issues which are painful to remember.
I am also thankful to Mr Farhan Qutab for writing this as a ‘solo’ letter because earlier he often wrote such letters jointly with Mr Faraz Liaquat, sometime from Jakarta and sometimes from Islamabad. I don’t know who provided ideas and who wrote them down! Or who wrote the first half and who wrote the concluding part!! I have often wondered whether these were written by neither of them but somebody else!
Coming to Mr Narendra Modi’s statement, Mr Modi was referring to our own Faisal Shahzads. The Indians who helped this terrorists’ gang from Pakistan were 'Faisal Shahzad's of India! The very people in Pakistan who can recruit gullible youths to become suicide bombers that are currently playing havoc in Pakistan can unfortunately recruit similar gullible, misguided youths in India too. So there is no element of surprise there. Unfortunately, we do have these Faisals in our country and these 0.1% Faisals spoil the good names of rest of the 99.9% of their own brethren.
Kasab sang like a proverbial canary and admitted every charge leveled against him, but with the help of a lawyer provided by India, he changed his plea. Our lower court tried Kasab and found him guilty. He was given the capital punishment. Our judicial system is fair. So I believe that he must have been found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
But as he was given capital punishment, as per our law, it has to be confirmed by the High Court. So his case is being tried there and is presently sub-judice. Bombay High Court will examine all issues including the question of who shot Late Mr. Karkare! So I prefer to wait till the verdict of the Bombay High Court is out.
=======================================
Prayers for Mumbai’s fallen heroes
Prayers for Mumbai’s fallen heroes
26th November 2010
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2010/11/26/prayers-mumbai%E2%80%99s-fallen-heroes.html
The second anniversary of the “Mumbai Massacre”, which led to loss of 166 innocent lives on Nov. 26, 2008, will sadden every Indian’s heart. This loss was caused by a deliberate attack launched by Pakistani terror networks to sabotage India’s march towards becoming a global power.
Whoever thought that this attempt would bring India to its knees was living in a fool’s paradise. Last year on the attack’s first anniversary, I was in India and watched the TV coverage on many domestic and foreign channels depicting the heroic acts of our security forces.
I heard the tapes of conversations of the terrorists and their handlers in Pakistan. Their handlers were telling the terrorists in the Taj and Oberoi-Trident hotels to fire at will and burn mattresses to create a “show of fire” for all to see!
Throughout the year, Ratan Tata stood tall as a pillar of courage and nobility. The hotel his group owns is back in business and recently hosted US president Obama who specifically chose to stay there.
Karambir Singh Kang, the hotel’s general manager, lost three family members during the massacre, but stayed put throughout the carnage. What a gem of a man when compared to the cowards behind this attack.
This year I am seeing the reactions of various people in commemorating this black day. The family members of some of the fallen heroes will also participate.
A Norwegian couple was injured in the attack is back in the city and has nothing but praise for the hotel staff and doctors who saved their lives. I read reports that relatives of Rabbi Gavriel and his pregnant wife, who were gunned down during carnage, have filed suit in New York against Pakistan’s ISI and the Lashkar-e-Taiba.
The suit alleges that ISI worked closely with the militant group and provided support to the gunmen! Parents of Sandeep Unnikrishnan are biking from Delhi to Mumbai to tell their fellow citizens how proud of they are of their son’s sacrifice.
The widow of Omble, a late hero of Nov. 26 whose extraordinary courage resulted in the arrest of the lone survivor of this carnage, has been so noble that she has refused to accept any monetary benefits from people to avoid contamination of Omble’s noble memory! Vinita Kamte has written a touching saga about her husband’s career and death.
She feels that the information about non-compliance of orders given by Karkare to the police was not conveyed to him in time and led to the death of Karkare, Kamte and Salaskar.
She is still struggling to find out the truth behind this.
We, all Indians, stand in grief with the near-and-dear ones of the fallen heroes. We salute the fallen heroes and pray that God grants peace to their souls. We also pray that God blesses their near-and-dear ones. We also pray that God Almighty guides the perpetrators of this ghastly crime to mend their ways.
K B Kale, Jakarta
====================================
Post Comments | Comments (2)
K B Kale, Jakarta | Mon, 29/11/2010 - 14:11pm
How true, Mr Sethi!
We have allowed ourselves to be considered as a soft target because we think too "extensively" but never "intensively" which finally leads us to "paralysis by analysis".
Our beloved neighbor, though bankrupt, behaves like a bull in the China shop thanks to "pocket money he gets from his sugar-daddies. He does what he wants but we can't even complain!
This reminds me of a nice Urdu sher:
Woh katl-e-aam karate hain to charchaa tak nahin hotee
hum aahbhee bharate hain to ho jaate hain badnam!
(When beloved carries out massacre, there is no discussion, but if I (her lover) as much as let out a sigh, I am condemned!)
====================================
harinder Singh sethi, India | Sun, 28/11/2010 - 05:11am
Yes sacrifice of our people is great but. I wish we should find out a way to punish hard the people behind and change our image of soft nation.
====================================
26th November 2010
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2010/11/26/prayers-mumbai%E2%80%99s-fallen-heroes.html
The second anniversary of the “Mumbai Massacre”, which led to loss of 166 innocent lives on Nov. 26, 2008, will sadden every Indian’s heart. This loss was caused by a deliberate attack launched by Pakistani terror networks to sabotage India’s march towards becoming a global power.
Whoever thought that this attempt would bring India to its knees was living in a fool’s paradise. Last year on the attack’s first anniversary, I was in India and watched the TV coverage on many domestic and foreign channels depicting the heroic acts of our security forces.
I heard the tapes of conversations of the terrorists and their handlers in Pakistan. Their handlers were telling the terrorists in the Taj and Oberoi-Trident hotels to fire at will and burn mattresses to create a “show of fire” for all to see!
Throughout the year, Ratan Tata stood tall as a pillar of courage and nobility. The hotel his group owns is back in business and recently hosted US president Obama who specifically chose to stay there.
Karambir Singh Kang, the hotel’s general manager, lost three family members during the massacre, but stayed put throughout the carnage. What a gem of a man when compared to the cowards behind this attack.
This year I am seeing the reactions of various people in commemorating this black day. The family members of some of the fallen heroes will also participate.
A Norwegian couple was injured in the attack is back in the city and has nothing but praise for the hotel staff and doctors who saved their lives. I read reports that relatives of Rabbi Gavriel and his pregnant wife, who were gunned down during carnage, have filed suit in New York against Pakistan’s ISI and the Lashkar-e-Taiba.
The suit alleges that ISI worked closely with the militant group and provided support to the gunmen! Parents of Sandeep Unnikrishnan are biking from Delhi to Mumbai to tell their fellow citizens how proud of they are of their son’s sacrifice.
The widow of Omble, a late hero of Nov. 26 whose extraordinary courage resulted in the arrest of the lone survivor of this carnage, has been so noble that she has refused to accept any monetary benefits from people to avoid contamination of Omble’s noble memory! Vinita Kamte has written a touching saga about her husband’s career and death.
She feels that the information about non-compliance of orders given by Karkare to the police was not conveyed to him in time and led to the death of Karkare, Kamte and Salaskar.
She is still struggling to find out the truth behind this.
We, all Indians, stand in grief with the near-and-dear ones of the fallen heroes. We salute the fallen heroes and pray that God grants peace to their souls. We also pray that God blesses their near-and-dear ones. We also pray that God Almighty guides the perpetrators of this ghastly crime to mend their ways.
K B Kale, Jakarta
====================================
Post Comments | Comments (2)
K B Kale, Jakarta | Mon, 29/11/2010 - 14:11pm
How true, Mr Sethi!
We have allowed ourselves to be considered as a soft target because we think too "extensively" but never "intensively" which finally leads us to "paralysis by analysis".
Our beloved neighbor, though bankrupt, behaves like a bull in the China shop thanks to "pocket money he gets from his sugar-daddies. He does what he wants but we can't even complain!
This reminds me of a nice Urdu sher:
Woh katl-e-aam karate hain to charchaa tak nahin hotee
hum aahbhee bharate hain to ho jaate hain badnam!
(When beloved carries out massacre, there is no discussion, but if I (her lover) as much as let out a sigh, I am condemned!)
====================================
harinder Singh sethi, India | Sun, 28/11/2010 - 05:11am
Yes sacrifice of our people is great but. I wish we should find out a way to punish hard the people behind and change our image of soft nation.
====================================
Kashmir dispute
Kashmir dispute
10th December, 2010
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2010/12/10/letter-kashmir-dispute.html
It is not clear to me what Aziz Butt (The Jakarta Post, Nov. 30, p. 8) is trying to convey in his letter “Remarks on Kashmir unacceptable.” All I could understand from it is his concern in addressing and solving this problem early.
I don’t know anybody who would oppose that! In the absence of the information regarding whether Butt is an Indian, a Pakistani or a Kashmiri Indian living in Kashmir or a Kashmiri Pakistani living in occupied Kashmir, it is difficult to address my response.
What does he mean by “leaving the area to Kashmiris”? Indians in Jammu and Kashmir (J&K) are already “free” because they have participated in every election held there. This clearly brings out that Kashmiris have very much been left to themselves, doesn’t it?
The government of Pakistan should undertake to use its best endeavors:
To secure the withdrawal from the State of Jammu and Kashmir of tribesmen and Pakistani nationals not normally resident therein who have entered the State for the purposes of fighting, and to prevent any intrusion into the State of such elements and any furnishing of material aid to those fighting in the State.
To make known to all concerned that the measures indicated in this and the following paragraphs provide full freedom to all subjects of the State, regardless of creed, caste, or party, to express their views and to vote on the question of the accession of the State, and that therefore they should cooperate in the maintenance of peace and order.
Actually, Pakistan has never completed the first step of the resolution and only talks of the second stage of Plebiscite.
Thus Pakistan should ask itself why it has failed to meet its basic obligation.
Of course, by now, we Indians are used to Pakistan’s style of making mistakes and blaming the whole world for the outcome including their blaming the whole world for a lack of enthusiasm in helping Pakistan’s flood-affected citizen when its own rich and elite class hadn’t paid their taxes!
Having realized that it has no chance of winning the plebiscite (if and when is held) for the merger of J&K with Pakistan, it has now started promoting J&K as an independent state!
Are we now talking of remaining unfulfilled actions of 1948 or a new demand for an independent state? If the former, the ball is clearly in Pakistan’s court. It can speak on this issue only after fulfilling its obligations.
K.B. Kale, Jakarta
============================================
Post Comments | Comments (2)
Edo E., Jakarta | Fri, 10/12/2010 - 14:12pm
There was a very interesting article in the Pakistani 'Express Tribune' written by Fasi Zaka in August. Here it is:
"The Express Tribune, August 24th, 2010
Pakistan’s human cockroaches
Pakistan, you are a failed state. Not because of Zardari. Not because of America. But because you are a failed people, all of us undeserving of sympathy. We are diseased, rotten to every brain stem, world please make an impenetrable fence around us, keep us all in so we don’t spread it to other people, other countries.
These were words I posted on a social networking website. I have an unusually negative mindset these days. It happened after I saw the video of the two teenage brothers brutally clubbed to death by a crowd frenzied with blood thirst in Sialkot. The police watched gleefully. The video has blurs at certain parts, but even this sensible sensitivity does not prevent one from seeing mists of blood flaying from the heads of these teens as they are hit relentlessly, and remorselessly, again and again.
The murderous crowd was truly representative of the richness of Pakistan. Some wear jeans, others shalwar kameez, some were bearded, others clean shaven. The Pakistanis had gotten together to have some fun.
Do not be shocked. This wasn’t isolated, it’s just that the crowd wanted to make sure their orgasmic moment could be captured for later viewing, at one’s pleasure. We blame our ill-educated brethren for the barbarity we witness, but that’s a self-serving lie.
The middle and upper classes are immune to education it seems. They hold opinions of everyday violence even if they have never raised their hand at anyone. If you believe Jews are the scum of the earth, all Ahmadis deserve to die or that Hindus are inferior, well why not two teenage boys?
I want Pakistanis to feel shame, in fact a substantial loss of self-esteem would be great. This is the only way for us to begin to doubt ourselves and the incessant excuses we make. Yes, the world is right to add restrictions on our visas, to see us as dangerous. If for even a while we felt we were the cockroaches of the human race, maybe we would get to the point we stopped the lies we tell ourselves and let this continue.
The fact is, if we had real democracy, there would be no internet in Pakistan, women would not be allowed out of their homes, education would come to a standstill and we would begin a programme of killing off every minority. Thank you corrupt generals and politicians, you keep this at bay with some sense of being answerable to a world that still has some humanity in it, even if you don’t.
And please, no excuses, no excuses. Don’t give us that, “If only there was true Islam they would be better”. I think a thousand years is enough, we can’t wait longer. And there was no America in existence for most of that, or even western colonialism.
You want to know just how sociopathic we are? In response to these killings some are happy to say we deserve earthquakes and floods. Typical. Don’t change yourself, but give credit to the indiscriminate and inhumane forces of nature. The floods are a tragedy, an atrocity and should never be used to bolster an argument that really only demands self-reflection.
And please, in your self-reflection don’t call us animals, most of them are benign vegetarians. Also don’t blame Sialkot; they were just unlucky because they are subject to scrutiny. There is so much more out there.
There is such a sense of sickening moral superiority in Pakistanis, it needs to be addressed. All we care about is foreign policy, eager to point out the hypocrisies of the world, silent on our domestic, or even local life. Why should the world take what you say seriously, why should you be a regional power, or a leader in the comity of Islamic nations?
Truth is, there is only one way to get change, and it’s not hanging the people who killed these boys. It is raising your voice to contradict people who advocate death for others, no matter who they are speaking of. To internalize that murder of any kind, for anyone is wrong. Sounds easy? Well just try it."
http://tribune.com.pk/story/42158/pakistan’s-human-cockroaches/
I wonder if the Kashmiris want to become cockroaches...
============================================
K B Kale, Jakarta | Fri, 10/12/2010 - 12:12pm
After the third paragraph ending with "This clearly brings out that Kashmiris have very much been left to themselves, doesn’t it?" a line has gone missing. This is the correct text:
---------------------------------------------------------
The links http://tinyurl.com/2f5nktw (PDF format) or http://tinyurl.com/2drf34j (WORD format) spell out the clauses in UNSC Resolution No 47 passed in 1948. The very first clause says and I copy-paste them:
A – RESTORATION OF PEACE AND ORDER
1. The Government of Pakistan should undertake to use its best endeavours:
(a) To secure the withdrawal from the State of Jammu and Kashmir of tribesmen and Pakistani nationals not normally resident therein who have entered the State for the purposes of fighting, and to prevent any intrusion into the State of such elements and any furnishing of material aid to those fighting in the State;
2. (b) To make known to all concerned that the measures indicated in this and the following paragraphs provide full freedom to all subjects of the State, regardless of creed, caste, or party, to express their views and to vote on the question of the accession of the State, and that therefore they should cooperate in the maintenance of peace and order.
Actually, Pakistan has never completed the first step of the resolution and only talks of the second stage of Plebiscite.
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks/regards,
K B Kale
============================================
10th December, 2010
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2010/12/10/letter-kashmir-dispute.html
It is not clear to me what Aziz Butt (The Jakarta Post, Nov. 30, p. 8) is trying to convey in his letter “Remarks on Kashmir unacceptable.” All I could understand from it is his concern in addressing and solving this problem early.
I don’t know anybody who would oppose that! In the absence of the information regarding whether Butt is an Indian, a Pakistani or a Kashmiri Indian living in Kashmir or a Kashmiri Pakistani living in occupied Kashmir, it is difficult to address my response.
What does he mean by “leaving the area to Kashmiris”? Indians in Jammu and Kashmir (J&K) are already “free” because they have participated in every election held there. This clearly brings out that Kashmiris have very much been left to themselves, doesn’t it?
The government of Pakistan should undertake to use its best endeavors:
To secure the withdrawal from the State of Jammu and Kashmir of tribesmen and Pakistani nationals not normally resident therein who have entered the State for the purposes of fighting, and to prevent any intrusion into the State of such elements and any furnishing of material aid to those fighting in the State.
To make known to all concerned that the measures indicated in this and the following paragraphs provide full freedom to all subjects of the State, regardless of creed, caste, or party, to express their views and to vote on the question of the accession of the State, and that therefore they should cooperate in the maintenance of peace and order.
Actually, Pakistan has never completed the first step of the resolution and only talks of the second stage of Plebiscite.
Thus Pakistan should ask itself why it has failed to meet its basic obligation.
Of course, by now, we Indians are used to Pakistan’s style of making mistakes and blaming the whole world for the outcome including their blaming the whole world for a lack of enthusiasm in helping Pakistan’s flood-affected citizen when its own rich and elite class hadn’t paid their taxes!
Having realized that it has no chance of winning the plebiscite (if and when is held) for the merger of J&K with Pakistan, it has now started promoting J&K as an independent state!
Are we now talking of remaining unfulfilled actions of 1948 or a new demand for an independent state? If the former, the ball is clearly in Pakistan’s court. It can speak on this issue only after fulfilling its obligations.
K.B. Kale, Jakarta
============================================
Post Comments | Comments (2)
Edo E., Jakarta | Fri, 10/12/2010 - 14:12pm
There was a very interesting article in the Pakistani 'Express Tribune' written by Fasi Zaka in August. Here it is:
"The Express Tribune, August 24th, 2010
Pakistan’s human cockroaches
Pakistan, you are a failed state. Not because of Zardari. Not because of America. But because you are a failed people, all of us undeserving of sympathy. We are diseased, rotten to every brain stem, world please make an impenetrable fence around us, keep us all in so we don’t spread it to other people, other countries.
These were words I posted on a social networking website. I have an unusually negative mindset these days. It happened after I saw the video of the two teenage brothers brutally clubbed to death by a crowd frenzied with blood thirst in Sialkot. The police watched gleefully. The video has blurs at certain parts, but even this sensible sensitivity does not prevent one from seeing mists of blood flaying from the heads of these teens as they are hit relentlessly, and remorselessly, again and again.
The murderous crowd was truly representative of the richness of Pakistan. Some wear jeans, others shalwar kameez, some were bearded, others clean shaven. The Pakistanis had gotten together to have some fun.
Do not be shocked. This wasn’t isolated, it’s just that the crowd wanted to make sure their orgasmic moment could be captured for later viewing, at one’s pleasure. We blame our ill-educated brethren for the barbarity we witness, but that’s a self-serving lie.
The middle and upper classes are immune to education it seems. They hold opinions of everyday violence even if they have never raised their hand at anyone. If you believe Jews are the scum of the earth, all Ahmadis deserve to die or that Hindus are inferior, well why not two teenage boys?
I want Pakistanis to feel shame, in fact a substantial loss of self-esteem would be great. This is the only way for us to begin to doubt ourselves and the incessant excuses we make. Yes, the world is right to add restrictions on our visas, to see us as dangerous. If for even a while we felt we were the cockroaches of the human race, maybe we would get to the point we stopped the lies we tell ourselves and let this continue.
The fact is, if we had real democracy, there would be no internet in Pakistan, women would not be allowed out of their homes, education would come to a standstill and we would begin a programme of killing off every minority. Thank you corrupt generals and politicians, you keep this at bay with some sense of being answerable to a world that still has some humanity in it, even if you don’t.
And please, no excuses, no excuses. Don’t give us that, “If only there was true Islam they would be better”. I think a thousand years is enough, we can’t wait longer. And there was no America in existence for most of that, or even western colonialism.
You want to know just how sociopathic we are? In response to these killings some are happy to say we deserve earthquakes and floods. Typical. Don’t change yourself, but give credit to the indiscriminate and inhumane forces of nature. The floods are a tragedy, an atrocity and should never be used to bolster an argument that really only demands self-reflection.
And please, in your self-reflection don’t call us animals, most of them are benign vegetarians. Also don’t blame Sialkot; they were just unlucky because they are subject to scrutiny. There is so much more out there.
There is such a sense of sickening moral superiority in Pakistanis, it needs to be addressed. All we care about is foreign policy, eager to point out the hypocrisies of the world, silent on our domestic, or even local life. Why should the world take what you say seriously, why should you be a regional power, or a leader in the comity of Islamic nations?
Truth is, there is only one way to get change, and it’s not hanging the people who killed these boys. It is raising your voice to contradict people who advocate death for others, no matter who they are speaking of. To internalize that murder of any kind, for anyone is wrong. Sounds easy? Well just try it."
http://tribune.com.pk/story/42158/pakistan’s-human-cockroaches/
I wonder if the Kashmiris want to become cockroaches...
============================================
K B Kale, Jakarta | Fri, 10/12/2010 - 12:12pm
After the third paragraph ending with "This clearly brings out that Kashmiris have very much been left to themselves, doesn’t it?" a line has gone missing. This is the correct text:
---------------------------------------------------------
The links http://tinyurl.com/2f5nktw (PDF format) or http://tinyurl.com/2drf34j (WORD format) spell out the clauses in UNSC Resolution No 47 passed in 1948. The very first clause says and I copy-paste them:
A – RESTORATION OF PEACE AND ORDER
1. The Government of Pakistan should undertake to use its best endeavours:
(a) To secure the withdrawal from the State of Jammu and Kashmir of tribesmen and Pakistani nationals not normally resident therein who have entered the State for the purposes of fighting, and to prevent any intrusion into the State of such elements and any furnishing of material aid to those fighting in the State;
2. (b) To make known to all concerned that the measures indicated in this and the following paragraphs provide full freedom to all subjects of the State, regardless of creed, caste, or party, to express their views and to vote on the question of the accession of the State, and that therefore they should cooperate in the maintenance of peace and order.
Actually, Pakistan has never completed the first step of the resolution and only talks of the second stage of Plebiscite.
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks/regards,
K B Kale
============================================
Pakistan and the US operation
Pakistan and the US operation
The Jakarta Post 9th May 2011
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2011/05/09/letter-pakistan-and-us-operation.html
One must admire the skill of Waqar Malik (The Jakarta Post, May 4) in highlighting unimportant things like the distance between Osama bin Laden’s hideout and Islamabad, its real estate worth, etc. But he fails to mention more important facts like that the hideout was less than 1 kilometer from the Pakistan Military Academy (PMA), and that it had high walls etc.
He also missed that the Pakistani President has stressed again and again that his administration neither knew anything of this mission nor took part in its execution. Wasn’t that because Americans were sure about the mission going awry if they had informed Pakistan?
The Navy SEALS, meanwhile, violated the sovereignty of Pakistan (words of Gen. Musharraf himself), slipped inside the country and after spending some 40 “quality” minutes in Bin Laden’s hideout, left with some dead bodies, computers, hard disks and flash disks, documents, etc. The Pakistani air-defense system seems to have gaps through which these choppers slipped in and out unnoticed. Huge Pakistani human losses are occurring because Pakistan chose, for whatever reason, to join the “war on terror” and although Pakistan was the first country to recognize Afghanistan under the Taliban, it abandoned it immediately after Armitage’s “persuasive talk” with then ISI chief, as quoted by Gen. Musharraf in “in the line of fire”.
After this decision, Pakistan turned around to fight against the Taliban. Was it because they were choosing the winning side? I still remember Gen. Musharraf repeatedly saying, “Ground realities had changed”, to justify his actions!
In regards to the grave mistrust between the US and Pakistan intelligence agencies, this has been the case since the mid 60s when the late Z A Bhutto, Pakistan’s then foreign minister, made some secret deals with China that the US didn’t like. In regards to drone attacks, permission for them was given by Gen. Musharraf when he aligned Pakistan with the US.
American media is abuzz with interviews of important personalities in US Congress and military and one common point is Pakistan’s untrustworthiness (Ralf Peters of Fox News repeatedly called Pakistan “treacherous”). Many members of the US Congress have openly recommended cutting off aid to Pakistan. US Representative Rohrabacher, a senior member of the House Committee on Foreign Affairs, Chairman of the Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations and a staffer in Reagan’s White House, openly recommended that aid to Pakistan should be cut and the US should seek friendship with India.
Both major parties of the UK have expressed similar opinions about Pakistan-PM Cameron at Bangalore and ex-Foreign Secretary Miliband in Washington. Since about a year, ISI has been ranked as the No. 1 spy agency in the world, replacing Israel’s Mossad. (Please see the “net version” of this letter for links.) When the best Intelligence Agency says it didn’t know what happened within 1 km of PMA, can anybody believe them? No!
In an article in The Express Tribune, “The curious case of Osama bin Laden”, author Hoodbhoy writes some scathing remarks such as “An American official pointedly declared that the information leading to Bin Laden’s killing was shared “with no other country” and General Kayani had declared on April 23 at PMA that “the terrorist’s backbone’s has been broken and insyaallah we will soon prevail”.
In the newspaper The Independent Imran Khan writes about a “national depression at the loss of national dignity and self-esteem as well as sovereignty.” He has hit the bull’s eye!
K B Kale, Jakarta
------------------------------------------------
Post Comments | Comments (5)
K B Kale, Jakarta | Tue, 10/05/2011 - 09:05am
Some additional links worth reading:
"The Emperors’ Clothes" A must-read article by Cyril Almeida in DAWN dt. 6th May 2011
http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/06/the-emperors-clothes.html
-------------------------------
"Abbottabad Raid-Pakistan upset about being kept in the dark" (by Kamran Yousaf-Express Tribune-4th May 2011)
http://tribune.com.pk/story/161452/abbottabad-raid-pakistan-upset-about-being-kept-in-the-dark/
-------------------------------
"Pakistan’s military and elite are holding it back: US analyst" -The Express Tribune
http://tribune.com.pk/story/34519/pakistans-military-and-elite-are-holding-it-back-us-analyst/
-------------------------------
"The best intelligence agency in the world ISI" (Siasi Pakistan-4 Aug 2010)
http://siyasipakistan.wordpress.com/2010/08/04/the-best-intelligence-agency-in-the-world-isi/
-------------------------------
DAWN editorial "Osama bin Laden" 3rd May 2011
http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/03/osama-bin-laden.html
-------------------------------
===================================================
Khan Ahmad Khan (II), Germany | Tue, 10/05/2011 - 01:05am
Small correction: Prof. Noam Chomsky has told in his lectures in India and Pakistan that the United States is a Terrorist Country. He has been there (I think) several times. For more details on Prof. Chomsky see www.Goole.com
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Khan Ahmad Khan , Germany | Mon, 09/05/2011 - 20:05pm
Dear Mark Ulyseas, Denpasar , You are telling the readers that Pakistan is a terrorist state (Prof. Noam Chomsky). The reality is, however, quite different. It is the United States which is a Terrorist state. Pakistan has done enough for the US. See for example: (This is just one example).
The Badaber Air base is located near Peshawar (North Pakistan). The former Chief Marshal of Pakistan Air Force wrote in a book: "Badaber gained prominence when a U2 plane which had staged through Peshawar on 1. May 1960 was brought down over the Soviet Union and Nikita Khrushchev in a foreign embassy reception in Moscow, told the Pakistan Ambassador that he had put a circle around Peshawar. U2 aircraft used by the CIA, were fitted with monitoring equipments and powerful cameras and has a abnormally long range as well a very high ceiling." (Source: Asghar Khan: Generals in Politics, Pakistan, 1958 - 1982, Vikas Publishing House, Dehli, 1983, p.204f.)
Since 1954 Pakistan was always on the side of the United States. Now they do not need Pakistan. Hence they would invade this country and destroy it. (Obama is a most dangerous president of America.) The Americans always supported the military in Pakistan and terrorists organisations. Since December 1979 (Afghanistan- Russia war) Pakistan is suffering and our country has paid a very high price, but the Americans are unthankful. Now, the Americans should leave Pakistan. They are not reliable partners.
===================================================
K B Kale, Jakarta | Mon, 09/05/2011 - 15:05pm
The best sentence of my letter was not published by JP through oversight. It reads, "I hope Pakistan does some introspection rather than trying to justify the unjustifiable!"
The curious case of Osama bin Laden, by Parvez Hoodbhoy, Express Tribune 3rd May 2011
http://tinyurl.com/6zrwq2b
--------------------------
Pakistan has lost its dignity and self-esteem by Imran Khan "The Independent" 3rd May 2011
http://tinyurl.com/3ghxu8g
--------------------------
Ten Best Intelligent Agencies in the World
http://www.smashinglists.com/10-best-intelligence-agencies-in-the-world/
http://www.pakalertpress.com/2010/07/31/10-best-intelligence-agencies-in-the-world/
http://www.dirjournal.com/info/the-worlds-best-intelligence-agencies/
--------------------------
David Cameron in Bangalore 28th July 2010
http://tinyurl.com/3yvtzq6
--------------------------
David Miliband in Washington DC 30th April 2011
http://tinyurl.com/3d5gj4u
--------------------------
More tomorrow
===================================================
Mark Ulyseas, Denpasar | Mon, 09/05/2011 - 12:05pm
Pakistan is a Terrorist State with WMD
It is now confirmed beyond any doubt that Pakistan is a safe haven and breeding ground for terrorists, their organizations, launch base for terror attacks in USA, Europe, Middle East (Israel), Russia, Afghanistan, India, China, Indonesia, etc.
Pakistan’s half million strong army is a support group for supply of arms, bombs and logistics for terror attacks in other countries. It’s intelligence agency, ISID aka murder incorporated specializes in murdering innocent unarmed civilians in many countries; basically an agency of thugs and assassins.
Pakistan is a nuclear State that ‘often reminds’ the USA of its arsenal. A bluff that usually has the desired effect – more dollars to ‘fight’ terrorism. These dollars are shared between corrupt Pak Army officers, ISID, Corrupt Pak Govt. officials and ‘donated’ to terrorist outfits, some of whom wage with India.
The bogey of India at its border has historically been used in domestic politics and Pak Army machinations to get cash handouts/arms from USA and China.
The field data collected and collated by : US Forces, RAW/Indian Army, KGB, Chinese Intelligence Agencies, Israel/ Mossad, Indonesian Intelligence Agency, etc.; And the killing of Osama Bin Laden in the heart of Pakistan has confirmed what the world suspected – Pakistan is a Terrorist State with weapons of mass destruction - a country that has exported WMD to North Korea, Iran and supplied a "dirty nuclear bomb" to Al Qaeda.
It is time to put an end to the butchering of innocent unarmed civilians and mindless acts of terrorism. It is time to call out the dogs of war to settle this problem once and for all.
Terrorist organisations working/operating international with bases in Pakistan
Lashkar-e-Omar (LeO), Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan (SSP), Tehreek-e-Jaferia Pakistan (TJP),Tehreek-e-Nafaz-e-Shariat-e-Mohammadi, Lashkar-eJhangvi (LeJ), Sipah-e-Muhammad Pakistan (SMP), Jamaat-ul-Fuqra, Nadeem Commando, Popular Front for Armed Resistance , Muslim United Army, Harkat-ul-Mujahideen Al-alami(HuMA), Trans-national Organisations, Hizb-ul-Mujahideen (HM), Harkat-ul-Ansar (HuA, presently known as Harkat-ul Mujahideen), Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT), Jaish-e-Mohammad Mujahideen E-Tanzeem (JeM), Harkat-ul Mujahideen (HuM, previously known as Harkat-ul-Ansar),Al BadrJamait-ul-Mujahideen (JuM), Lashkar-e-Jabbar (LeJ),Harkat-ul-Jehad-al-Islami(HUJI),Muttahida Jehad Council (MJC),Al Barq,Tehrik-ul-Mujahideen, Al Jehad, Jammu & Kashir National Liberation Army, People’s League, Muslim Janbaz Force, Kashmir Jehad Force, Al Jehad Force (combines Muslim Janbaz Force and Kashmir Jehad Force), Al Umar Mujahideen, Mahaz-e-Azadi, Islami Jamaat-e-Tulba, Jammu & Kashmir Students Liberation Front, Ikhwan-ul-Mujahideen, Islamic Students League, Tehrik-e-Hurriat-e-Kashmir, Tehrik-e-Nifaz-e-Fiqar Jafaria, Al Mustafa Liberation Fighters, Tehrik-e-Jehad-e-Islami, Muslim Mujahideen, Al Mujahid Force, Tehrik-e-Jehad, Islami Inquilabi Mahaz, Jamaat-ud-Dawa, Al-Rashid Trust, Al-Akhtar Trust, Rabita Trust, Ummah Tamir-e-Nau, East Turkistan Islamic Movement, etc.
Terrorists working/operating internationally from the sanctuary of Pakistan
Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi, Zarrar Shah , Nasr Javed , Jamaat-ud-Dawa (JuD) chief Hafiz Saeed, his commanders Zakir-ur-Rehman Lakhvi, Zarar Shah, Abu Al Qama, Abu Qahafa, Sajid Mir and Yusuf Muzammil and HuJI commander Ilyas Kashmiri, Mullah Mohammed Omar, Dawood Ibrahim, Ayman al Zawahiri, AQAP (al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula) members of 36 groups including al-Qaida, Hamas, Hezbollah, Taliban, Al-Fatah and Iranian intelligence, etc.
Will the USA continue to supply money and arms to Pakistan?
Will China look the other way while attacks by East Turkestan' terror forces continue on its territory?
Will Indonesia continue to remain silent as Right Wing Forces grow violent ?
And will India continue to voice its concern without taking any military action?
The equation has changed as of May 1, 2011.
It is time to put an end to the butchering of innocent unarmed civilians and mindless acts of terrorism. It is time to call out the dogs of war to settle this problem once and for all.
Is anyone listening?
Remember - 9/11 New York, 7/7 London, 26/11 Mumbai,12/10 Bali
===================================================
The Jakarta Post 9th May 2011
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2011/05/09/letter-pakistan-and-us-operation.html
One must admire the skill of Waqar Malik (The Jakarta Post, May 4) in highlighting unimportant things like the distance between Osama bin Laden’s hideout and Islamabad, its real estate worth, etc. But he fails to mention more important facts like that the hideout was less than 1 kilometer from the Pakistan Military Academy (PMA), and that it had high walls etc.
He also missed that the Pakistani President has stressed again and again that his administration neither knew anything of this mission nor took part in its execution. Wasn’t that because Americans were sure about the mission going awry if they had informed Pakistan?
The Navy SEALS, meanwhile, violated the sovereignty of Pakistan (words of Gen. Musharraf himself), slipped inside the country and after spending some 40 “quality” minutes in Bin Laden’s hideout, left with some dead bodies, computers, hard disks and flash disks, documents, etc. The Pakistani air-defense system seems to have gaps through which these choppers slipped in and out unnoticed. Huge Pakistani human losses are occurring because Pakistan chose, for whatever reason, to join the “war on terror” and although Pakistan was the first country to recognize Afghanistan under the Taliban, it abandoned it immediately after Armitage’s “persuasive talk” with then ISI chief, as quoted by Gen. Musharraf in “in the line of fire”.
After this decision, Pakistan turned around to fight against the Taliban. Was it because they were choosing the winning side? I still remember Gen. Musharraf repeatedly saying, “Ground realities had changed”, to justify his actions!
In regards to the grave mistrust between the US and Pakistan intelligence agencies, this has been the case since the mid 60s when the late Z A Bhutto, Pakistan’s then foreign minister, made some secret deals with China that the US didn’t like. In regards to drone attacks, permission for them was given by Gen. Musharraf when he aligned Pakistan with the US.
American media is abuzz with interviews of important personalities in US Congress and military and one common point is Pakistan’s untrustworthiness (Ralf Peters of Fox News repeatedly called Pakistan “treacherous”). Many members of the US Congress have openly recommended cutting off aid to Pakistan. US Representative Rohrabacher, a senior member of the House Committee on Foreign Affairs, Chairman of the Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations and a staffer in Reagan’s White House, openly recommended that aid to Pakistan should be cut and the US should seek friendship with India.
Both major parties of the UK have expressed similar opinions about Pakistan-PM Cameron at Bangalore and ex-Foreign Secretary Miliband in Washington. Since about a year, ISI has been ranked as the No. 1 spy agency in the world, replacing Israel’s Mossad. (Please see the “net version” of this letter for links.) When the best Intelligence Agency says it didn’t know what happened within 1 km of PMA, can anybody believe them? No!
In an article in The Express Tribune, “The curious case of Osama bin Laden”, author Hoodbhoy writes some scathing remarks such as “An American official pointedly declared that the information leading to Bin Laden’s killing was shared “with no other country” and General Kayani had declared on April 23 at PMA that “the terrorist’s backbone’s has been broken and insyaallah we will soon prevail”.
In the newspaper The Independent Imran Khan writes about a “national depression at the loss of national dignity and self-esteem as well as sovereignty.” He has hit the bull’s eye!
K B Kale, Jakarta
------------------------------------------------
Post Comments | Comments (5)
K B Kale, Jakarta | Tue, 10/05/2011 - 09:05am
Some additional links worth reading:
"The Emperors’ Clothes" A must-read article by Cyril Almeida in DAWN dt. 6th May 2011
http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/06/the-emperors-clothes.html
-------------------------------
"Abbottabad Raid-Pakistan upset about being kept in the dark" (by Kamran Yousaf-Express Tribune-4th May 2011)
http://tribune.com.pk/story/161452/abbottabad-raid-pakistan-upset-about-being-kept-in-the-dark/
-------------------------------
"Pakistan’s military and elite are holding it back: US analyst" -The Express Tribune
http://tribune.com.pk/story/34519/pakistans-military-and-elite-are-holding-it-back-us-analyst/
-------------------------------
"The best intelligence agency in the world ISI" (Siasi Pakistan-4 Aug 2010)
http://siyasipakistan.wordpress.com/2010/08/04/the-best-intelligence-agency-in-the-world-isi/
-------------------------------
DAWN editorial "Osama bin Laden" 3rd May 2011
http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/03/osama-bin-laden.html
-------------------------------
===================================================
Khan Ahmad Khan (II), Germany | Tue, 10/05/2011 - 01:05am
Small correction: Prof. Noam Chomsky has told in his lectures in India and Pakistan that the United States is a Terrorist Country. He has been there (I think) several times. For more details on Prof. Chomsky see www.Goole.com
===================================================
Khan Ahmad Khan , Germany | Mon, 09/05/2011 - 20:05pm
Dear Mark Ulyseas, Denpasar , You are telling the readers that Pakistan is a terrorist state (Prof. Noam Chomsky). The reality is, however, quite different. It is the United States which is a Terrorist state. Pakistan has done enough for the US. See for example: (This is just one example).
The Badaber Air base is located near Peshawar (North Pakistan). The former Chief Marshal of Pakistan Air Force wrote in a book: "Badaber gained prominence when a U2 plane which had staged through Peshawar on 1. May 1960 was brought down over the Soviet Union and Nikita Khrushchev in a foreign embassy reception in Moscow, told the Pakistan Ambassador that he had put a circle around Peshawar. U2 aircraft used by the CIA, were fitted with monitoring equipments and powerful cameras and has a abnormally long range as well a very high ceiling." (Source: Asghar Khan: Generals in Politics, Pakistan, 1958 - 1982, Vikas Publishing House, Dehli, 1983, p.204f.)
Since 1954 Pakistan was always on the side of the United States. Now they do not need Pakistan. Hence they would invade this country and destroy it. (Obama is a most dangerous president of America.) The Americans always supported the military in Pakistan and terrorists organisations. Since December 1979 (Afghanistan- Russia war) Pakistan is suffering and our country has paid a very high price, but the Americans are unthankful. Now, the Americans should leave Pakistan. They are not reliable partners.
===================================================
K B Kale, Jakarta | Mon, 09/05/2011 - 15:05pm
The best sentence of my letter was not published by JP through oversight. It reads, "I hope Pakistan does some introspection rather than trying to justify the unjustifiable!"
The curious case of Osama bin Laden, by Parvez Hoodbhoy, Express Tribune 3rd May 2011
http://tinyurl.com/6zrwq2b
--------------------------
Pakistan has lost its dignity and self-esteem by Imran Khan "The Independent" 3rd May 2011
http://tinyurl.com/3ghxu8g
--------------------------
Ten Best Intelligent Agencies in the World
http://www.smashinglists.com/10-best-intelligence-agencies-in-the-world/
http://www.pakalertpress.com/2010/07/31/10-best-intelligence-agencies-in-the-world/
http://www.dirjournal.com/info/the-worlds-best-intelligence-agencies/
--------------------------
David Cameron in Bangalore 28th July 2010
http://tinyurl.com/3yvtzq6
--------------------------
David Miliband in Washington DC 30th April 2011
http://tinyurl.com/3d5gj4u
--------------------------
More tomorrow
===================================================
Mark Ulyseas, Denpasar | Mon, 09/05/2011 - 12:05pm
Pakistan is a Terrorist State with WMD
It is now confirmed beyond any doubt that Pakistan is a safe haven and breeding ground for terrorists, their organizations, launch base for terror attacks in USA, Europe, Middle East (Israel), Russia, Afghanistan, India, China, Indonesia, etc.
Pakistan’s half million strong army is a support group for supply of arms, bombs and logistics for terror attacks in other countries. It’s intelligence agency, ISID aka murder incorporated specializes in murdering innocent unarmed civilians in many countries; basically an agency of thugs and assassins.
Pakistan is a nuclear State that ‘often reminds’ the USA of its arsenal. A bluff that usually has the desired effect – more dollars to ‘fight’ terrorism. These dollars are shared between corrupt Pak Army officers, ISID, Corrupt Pak Govt. officials and ‘donated’ to terrorist outfits, some of whom wage with India.
The bogey of India at its border has historically been used in domestic politics and Pak Army machinations to get cash handouts/arms from USA and China.
The field data collected and collated by : US Forces, RAW/Indian Army, KGB, Chinese Intelligence Agencies, Israel/ Mossad, Indonesian Intelligence Agency, etc.; And the killing of Osama Bin Laden in the heart of Pakistan has confirmed what the world suspected – Pakistan is a Terrorist State with weapons of mass destruction - a country that has exported WMD to North Korea, Iran and supplied a "dirty nuclear bomb" to Al Qaeda.
It is time to put an end to the butchering of innocent unarmed civilians and mindless acts of terrorism. It is time to call out the dogs of war to settle this problem once and for all.
Terrorist organisations working/operating international with bases in Pakistan
Lashkar-e-Omar (LeO), Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan (SSP), Tehreek-e-Jaferia Pakistan (TJP),Tehreek-e-Nafaz-e-Shariat-e-Mohammadi, Lashkar-eJhangvi (LeJ), Sipah-e-Muhammad Pakistan (SMP), Jamaat-ul-Fuqra, Nadeem Commando, Popular Front for Armed Resistance , Muslim United Army, Harkat-ul-Mujahideen Al-alami(HuMA), Trans-national Organisations, Hizb-ul-Mujahideen (HM), Harkat-ul-Ansar (HuA, presently known as Harkat-ul Mujahideen), Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT), Jaish-e-Mohammad Mujahideen E-Tanzeem (JeM), Harkat-ul Mujahideen (HuM, previously known as Harkat-ul-Ansar),Al BadrJamait-ul-Mujahideen (JuM), Lashkar-e-Jabbar (LeJ),Harkat-ul-Jehad-al-Islami(HUJI),Muttahida Jehad Council (MJC),Al Barq,Tehrik-ul-Mujahideen, Al Jehad, Jammu & Kashir National Liberation Army, People’s League, Muslim Janbaz Force, Kashmir Jehad Force, Al Jehad Force (combines Muslim Janbaz Force and Kashmir Jehad Force), Al Umar Mujahideen, Mahaz-e-Azadi, Islami Jamaat-e-Tulba, Jammu & Kashmir Students Liberation Front, Ikhwan-ul-Mujahideen, Islamic Students League, Tehrik-e-Hurriat-e-Kashmir, Tehrik-e-Nifaz-e-Fiqar Jafaria, Al Mustafa Liberation Fighters, Tehrik-e-Jehad-e-Islami, Muslim Mujahideen, Al Mujahid Force, Tehrik-e-Jehad, Islami Inquilabi Mahaz, Jamaat-ud-Dawa, Al-Rashid Trust, Al-Akhtar Trust, Rabita Trust, Ummah Tamir-e-Nau, East Turkistan Islamic Movement, etc.
Terrorists working/operating internationally from the sanctuary of Pakistan
Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi, Zarrar Shah , Nasr Javed , Jamaat-ud-Dawa (JuD) chief Hafiz Saeed, his commanders Zakir-ur-Rehman Lakhvi, Zarar Shah, Abu Al Qama, Abu Qahafa, Sajid Mir and Yusuf Muzammil and HuJI commander Ilyas Kashmiri, Mullah Mohammed Omar, Dawood Ibrahim, Ayman al Zawahiri, AQAP (al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula) members of 36 groups including al-Qaida, Hamas, Hezbollah, Taliban, Al-Fatah and Iranian intelligence, etc.
Will the USA continue to supply money and arms to Pakistan?
Will China look the other way while attacks by East Turkestan' terror forces continue on its territory?
Will Indonesia continue to remain silent as Right Wing Forces grow violent ?
And will India continue to voice its concern without taking any military action?
The equation has changed as of May 1, 2011.
It is time to put an end to the butchering of innocent unarmed civilians and mindless acts of terrorism. It is time to call out the dogs of war to settle this problem once and for all.
Is anyone listening?
Remember - 9/11 New York, 7/7 London, 26/11 Mumbai,12/10 Bali
===================================================
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